Point to Point Wireless AP moving

Configuration and operational information about stumbled AP's

Point to Point Wireless AP moving

Postby mglasser » Mon Dec 30, 2002 2:11 am

First off, be kind, I am new to 802.11b.
I read a whole lot of the posts and didn't find anyone trying to
do what I am doing, so I've decided to post.

I have high speed access in my home.
About 1 mile from my home is my favorite diner.
I spend hours there and would like to add wireless access
there. They will not let me mount an antenna on there building.

I figure that I can mount a directional antenna(of some type)
on my house, aim it at the dinner, and mount a second AP in my car with another antenna.

I then would use my laptop inside with the standard card. This would be well within 50 feet of my car.

Will this work?!?!?!??! I am using linksys wireless routers.
Firmware ver 1.42.7, Apr 03 2002
BEFW11S4

Will I need a small local omin-directional antenna while I also use the high gain directional?

Help help help.
Thanks
Mike
KC2GDP
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Postby Thorn » Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:51 am

The cleanest way to do it is to create a mobile repeater using 2 APs in the car. Set it up like the attached image, where the blue line is Cat5 cable. Read through these forums and you find out about the channel spacing, if you don't already know it.

Two 5dB mag mount omnis should function fine on the mobile end, and I'd suggest a 8dB to 14dB yagi on the house end. Do the math for the freespace loss, and you'll know exactly what you need.

KB1CPS
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Postby MRK » Mon Dec 30, 2002 9:53 am

Why not just get a really powerfull yagi and skip the antenna for your car? That way your not dependant on your car.

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Postby MRK » Mon Dec 30, 2002 2:15 pm

Btw, are those ham call signs? lol Just wondering. :D

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Postby mglasser » Mon Dec 30, 2002 4:23 pm

Thorn, Thanks a lot. That's awesome.

However, I was hoping to do it without having to buy a third AP.
Any way to rig up two antenna's without inadvertantly increasing the wavelength????

I can't remember to much from HAM school.

Thanks
Mike
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Postby Thorn » Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:15 pm

That's about the only way I know to do it staying within the non-licensed power levels. I'm not sure what you're asking about rigging two antennae together.

However, since you are a ham, you can run up to 1kW* legally under your license on the ISM band. Non-commercial use only, though. So if you were to use it for work, you'd be out of luck. Don't forget that you'd have to amp both ends, in order to have the signal reach both ways.

Amps are pretty expensive though. It would probably be cheaper to stick with the dual AP setup.

Mr. K,
Yes, those are FCC amateur call signs.

*Double check the regs before you do this. I'm pretty sure we can use 1kW in ISM, but I haven't read the those particular regs in a while.
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Postby Madhadder » Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:02 am

I don't think it would be possible to bypass having 2 APs
in the car. You might be able to get the signal from the
house to the car at 1w but the Wifi card in the laptop
sure as Heck won't be able to send a signal back that far.

Here's the link from a post I did sometime ago about something
like this:

http://www.newburyopen.net/car1.html

or this one (PDF Manual)

http://www.newburyopen.net/docs/NON_tech_specs_1_0_lo.pdf

They have some good pix of the setup and some instructions
on how to set it up.
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Postby mglasser » Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:29 pm

After reading that last document, It seems that one of the Linksys routers would be a wireless-ethernet bridge, but have a lot more extra power. Considering the cost diffrence is almost nothing, I think that two LinkSys APs would be a better option.
I am probably going to go out and buy 3 more of the same linksys AP's from radioshack (I have a friend who works there so I get a discount). Anyone have an suggestions for a better hardware option that would be in the same price range?
Thanks
Mike
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Postby Thorn » Wed Jan 01, 2003 7:05 pm

There are a lot of better pieces of equipment out there, but not in that price range. Stick with a couple of WAP11s.
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Postby mglasser » Wed Jan 01, 2003 11:43 pm

Guys, you've been realy helpfull. Thanks.
(just thought I should put that in there)

Ok, Here's where I'm at.

Mobile
2 Linksys WAP11
2 Omni-Mag Mount Antenna's (5db Gain)

House
???
I was wondering if I can get away with just using 1
WAP11 instead of 2 like the mobile setup. With a High Gain antenna mounted on the roof of my house, do you think that my laptop will work directly below it? (about 15 feet)

Also, as far as a home antenna, I was thinking about using
a high gain omni directional. That would make life easier so that
I could have access all around town, instead of just in that one place.

Am I better off mounting this at street level or maybe out of my window instead of at roof level? With a 10 DB antenna I understand the patern is flat, but how flat is flat?

I've been looking at all the diffrent designs on the forums and
have found a few diffrent nice ones. What do you think?

Thanks
Mike
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Postby Thorn » Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:09 am

Originally posted by mglasser
...
Am I better off mounting this at street level or maybe out of my window instead of at roof level? With a 10 DB antenna I understand the patern is flat, but how flat is flat?

Some are real flat. Look at the manufacturers' websites. Most publish the E and H patterns of their antennae, so you should be able to get some idea for whether they'll work for you. Remember too, that the terrain has a lot to do with this. A high gain on top of a hill is apt to shoot over your head, as opposed to a high gain on level ground. Also, check out the calculators at http://www.ydi.com. There is one that will compute where the signal lobes hit the ground from a given height.

15 feet below the antenna for the house should still pick up the signal. Much more than that, maybe not...
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Postby Spammy » Sat Jan 18, 2003 3:28 pm

I heard the latest D-Link 900+ AP has a repeating function... so if you could swap your second linksys for a 900+ you should be ok.

Theres an article on the 900+ repeating at tomshardware.com I think.

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Postby Madhadder » Sat Jan 18, 2003 11:26 pm

Let's see if I can make this easy for ya....


Home:
------------------------
1xWAP-11 connected to Dirrectional/Yagi aimed at the Cafe.
Mount it on the roof or somewhere high.

If you also want Broadcast signal aroung your
house/neighborhood, then also throw in the following:

1xWap11 connected to 12/14db Omni also on the roof.

Using POE you can place both AP's in a Weatherproof box up
on the roof, so your Antt. runs are kept short. Dont forget about
the Lightning protections,grounding,etc.



Mobile/Car
-------------------------------

2xWap11 - 1 Connected to Dirrectional/Yagi Pointed towards
Home.
- 1 Connected to 8/12db Omni for local access.

Mount them on a 12-18ft PVC Pipe and connect them
Back-To-Back. Use the pictures from the above "Newberry"
site to aid you in construction.

I have done a few setup's like this, and have not had any
probs. with it besides, not having LOS in some areas. But even
this can be fixed if you have $$, just add a repeater setup
somewhere between you and your net access.

If you want to go crazy, you might also be able to use the new
WAP54's with a little signal boosting, for backhaul connections.
Of course you will also need 5.8ghz Antt. instead of 2.4ghz.
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