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08-05-2001
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#3 (permalink) |
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Posts: n/a
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Any LEGAL use?
>> This is useful as any LEGAL use of netstumbler would requiring knowing where the WAN was found. <<
Interesting. Can you expand your thoughts on this a bit more? Is it your opinion that the bulk of our use of NetStumbler violates certain laws? If so, which ones? Or instead of legal, were you perhaps thinking of a different word? -Toomer |
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08-05-2001
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#4 (permalink) |
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Posts: n/a
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legal uses
Well, as Peter Shipley said at defcon "I only look at packet headers"..."that's my story and I'm sticking to it." I'm not a law person, but basic use of netstumbler is not illegal as far as I can tell. However, as soon as you perpously attach to an AP without asking you are breaking the law. In the US it's illegal to gain unatherized access, which does include, simply joining there wireless network. Setting you card into promiscuos mode is illegal on any network you don't own, or have promission form the owner. Just because the traffic is flowing clear text over threw the air in you house, car, or wherever does not mean you have a right to see it.
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08-05-2001
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#5 (permalink) |
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Posts: n/a
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forgot something =)
I think I did word that "LEGAL" sentance badly... there are some other legal uses that would not need a GPS, such as a network admin who wanted to see that there were no rogue/unautherized APs in his network, or something how wanted to use NetStumbler as a better site servay program.
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08-08-2001
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#7 (permalink) |
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Posts: n/a
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you card just attaching to a network
If your Wi-Fi card just attaches to an AP because it's the closest around you *may* be braking the law. This topic was discussed at DefCon... No one has yet been arrested so untill someone is accaully arrest and tried fir this we wont really know. Yes it does seem that if your card is set to ANY, or blank for a legitament perpose (such as you have a Wi-FI network at home, and one with a different SSID at work) and your card just attaches to a loud AP, that is also broadcasting DHCP, that you should not be breaking the law, however in the US, that is called unautherized access. And simply being connected is techlicly illegal. The laws were written with the internet in mind, not a wireless word with 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi radio signals flying all around....
Hey, someone go accidently associate to my home AP, and I'll sue you, then we'll know if it's legal or not. =) |
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08-08-2001
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#8 (permalink) |
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Posts: n/a
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hmm
i donno logon..
seems odd that you would do wardriving with netstumbler at all if you were worried about that.. if i drive by your house and discover your network... hmm how do you justify setting up your wardriving machine then? just courious.. if you handing ips out and not securing your ap in anyform hmm I would think it would be no different than that of a wireless phone scanner.. anyone know the laws on these.. or tuning into a ham radio signal.. i think radio laws apply here not internet laws.. just a guess... because just because you have an ap doesnt mean that it is connected to the internet.. i think a simple methoid would be use basic security... some form of authentacation.. mac address. radius whatever... hmm i dont really know the answer to all this... so i dont what to knock anyone... just some ideas to discuss.. mabye someone will get sued and then the laws will get defined.. in any event it will definately bring attention to this issue.. which is one of the major reasons behind this porject lol... i wouuld like to think most people would be considerate nieghboors (internet or wireless) and if you do decided to use or not to use a network dont do anything stupid.. |
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08-09-2001
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#9 (permalink) |
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Ethics.
If I walk by someones house... and they are playing music that is loud enough for me to hear.... am I unlawfully utilizing their stereo and music?
The FCC allocates bands of the radio spectrum to be used for specific purposes, and 2.4 ghz is an "unlicensed" band... Devices that use unliscensed frequencies, and fall within power limitations, can be used free of obstruction by the FCC. Anyone can legally develop a low-power 2.4ghz product... so is receiving 2.4ghz signals illegal? I think not. Is USING someones wap without their knowledge illegal? probably, yes. |
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08-09-2001
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#10 (permalink) |
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Posts: n/a
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Interesting searches -
I've done a bit more reading on this, and it would seem that the laws are written to favor the owner of a network. That's certainly an understandable way to write the laws. For further discussions, you might want to do some lookups on "computer eavesdropping" and "computer trespass" -- those (felonies, in certain circumstances) laws seem to be written towards wired networks, but would probably form the basis for any lawsuit that might be filed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but back when cell phones were analog, it was illegal to use a scanner to tap into the phone calls of people in your area. Even though the coversations were in the air (unencrypted) all around you, if memory serves me correct it was illegal to listen in. Maybe that's the difference between "licensed" and "unlicensed" frequencies, mentioned earlier in this thread? Maybe the cell phone frequencies are licensed, and others (standard 900mhz or 2.4ghz cordless phones) are not. Who knows. Certainly is a tangled issue, but well worth the debate so that we can attempt to determine some answers before a) someone gets in trouble, or b) the press starts coming up with their own interpretations of the law. -Toomer |
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Linear Mode
