mappoint

wopper · 12-30-2003

is mappoint the only program that can use netstumbler data ?
or is ther another program by some miricle?

Thorn · 12-30-2003

StumbVerter just converts to MapPoint. However, many programs can use NetStumbler data. It's all in the FAQs.

Madhadder · 12-30-2003

The only one that is really supported and updated.
Anything else is a hack job.

wopper · 12-30-2003

ok ill go stumble in the FAQS section once more

wopper · 12-30-2003

let me rephrase the question.
can i use mapsource with netstumbler ?
mapsource from the looks of it will only import .wpt .rte .trk .grm

Thorn · 12-30-2003

Yes.

As stated, it is in the FAQs.

The SEARCH function still works very well.

<spoonfeed mode ON>

http://forums.netstumbler.com/showth...urce#post37135

<spoonfeed mode OFF>

wopper · 12-30-2003

spoonfeed mode that is a good one :P
im just getting lazy from reading so many faqs.
so anyway I went to your thread, the link to that software to convert to mapsource is dead so i searched out the converter on yahoo, found the site, got conveter, and support files to run vbs programs and it works?
sorta it converts and imports to my map prog but all the APs in the netstumbler file theres about 25 of them do not all show up in the map program after import any ideas ?

Thorn · 12-30-2003

Well, I'm not a Mapsource user, and I didn't author the Mapsourse converter, so this is strictly a SWAG (Scientific Wild-Assed Guess): Most of the time I see conversion errors with any map program, it's due it invalid Longitude/Latitude information. Make sure that the data is valid for those. NS 0.3.30 does not log GPS extended ORiNOCO networks. You'll get a blank on the Lat/Long. Make sure it's not those type of APs in there.

Also, make sure you don't have any odd characters in the converted data.

If there are 25 APs that were not imported, there has to be some common problem with them. See if there is anything obvious about them in NetStumbler, and in the summary files.

wopper · 12-30-2003

ok ill look over the export and see if it looks funny
Thanks for all the help

wopper · 12-30-2003

hres what i got for a summary the long and lat loots messed up as you can see

in the screenshot i have attached well heres the summary pasted it lookslike the img did not atach

# $Creator: Network Stumbler Version 0.3.30
# $Format: wi-scan summary with extensions
# Latitude Longitude ( SSID ) Type ( BSSID ) Time (GMT) [ SNR Sig Noise ] # ( Name ) Flags Channelbits BcnIntvl
# $DateGMT: 2003-12-30
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( ozone ) BBS ( 00:06:25:f0:c1:6b ) 23:55:00 (GMT) [ 67 116 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4020 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( LEEROYAL ) BBS ( 00:10:e7:f5:c7:12 ) 23:56:52 (GMT) [ 39 88 49 ] # ( ) 0011 4002 0
N 26.6281571 W 81.8702529 ( WLAN ) BBS ( 00:30:bd:c2:18:46 ) 23:57:05 (GMT) [ 29 78 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4800 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( tsunami ) BBS ( 00:40:96:46:6a:10 ) 23:57:41 (GMT) [ 14 63 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4002 0
N 26.6348719 W 81.8704946 ( dtfmwap3 ) BBS ( 00:0d:28:59:85:20 ) 23:58:19 (GMT) [ 12 61 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4040 0
N 26.6355323 W 81.8705078 ( execwap ) BBS ( 00:0c:ce:c8:3f:ff ) 23:58:26 (GMT) [ 11 60 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6361904 W 81.8705169 ( dtfmwap1 ) BBS ( 00:0c:ce:c8:40:90 ) 23:58:28 (GMT) [ 37 86 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4040 0
N 26.6373542 W 81.8684464 ( NETGEAR ) BBS ( 00:09:5b:6e:ea:62 ) 23:58:57 (GMT) [ 30 79 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4800 0
N 26.6384469 W 81.8684696 ( aegis ) BBS ( 00:0c:41:b6:df:da ) 23:59:01 (GMT) [ 33 82 49 ] # ( ) 0011 4040 0
# $DateGMT: 2003-12-31
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( Beac WiFi ) BBS ( 00:02:2d:92:9a:ca ) 00:04:47 (GMT) [ 34 83 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4400 0
N 26.6592503 W 81.8746087 ( marina2 ) BBS ( 00:60:b3:8a:20:48 ) 00:05:28 (GMT) [ 15 64 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4010 0
N 26.6673577 W 81.8819800 ( gemranger ) BBS ( 00:06:25:50:31:53 ) 00:07:23 (GMT) [ 17 66 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4020 0
N 26.6673557 W 81.8821541 ( gemwireless ) BBS ( 00:40:05:bc:61:7f ) 00:07:28 (GMT) [ 11 60 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6585173 W 81.8835245 ( surfnet ) BBS ( 00:90:0e:00:7a:43 ) 00:19:35 (GMT) [ 36 85 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4800 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( Beaco WiFi ) BBS ( 00:02:2d:92:9a:ec ) 00:20:59 (GMT) [ 32 81 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4400 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:b6:00:9d ) 00:22:21 (GMT) [ 12 61 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( 5th fl isd ) BBS ( 00:90:4b:36:bf:80 ) 00:22:30 (GMT) [ 20 69 49 ] # ( ) 0011 0080 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:dd:11:6d ) 00:22:51 (GMT) [ 24 73 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( charris ) BBS ( 00:06:25:f0:eb:d5 ) 00:22:52 (GMT) [ 27 76 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:0c:41:a0:cc:f8 ) 00:23:00 (GMT) [ 15 64 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:71:b7:ad ) 00:23:04 (GMT) [ 22 71 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:df:3b:4b ) 00:23:46 (GMT) [ 14 63 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( NovusAIR ) BBS ( 00:0c:41:c1:70:35 ) 00:23:57 (GMT) [ 16 65 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0002 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( demo1 ) BBS ( 00:40:96:33:60:d7 ) 00:24:23 (GMT) [ 13 62 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0800 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( Airport ) BBS ( 00:30:65:1c:f3:80 ) 00:24:33 (GMT) [ 16 65 49 ] # ( ) 0011 4002 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( default ) BBS ( 00:50:18:05:fa:2c ) 00:24:41 (GMT) [ 26 75 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksysds ) BBS ( 00:06:25:a2:34:f0 ) 00:24:47 (GMT) [ 30 79 49 ] # ( ) 0011 4080 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:04:5a:f9:a7:b6 ) 00:24:48 (GMT) [ 34 83 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:5d:75:09 ) 00:24:48 (GMT) [ 16 65 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:f0:ec:d7 ) 00:24:51 (GMT) [ 13 62 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( Lightni ) BBS ( 00:09:5b:6d:a6:a4 ) 00:26:31 (GMT) [ 22 71 49 ] # ( ) 0011 0080 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( district ) BBS ( 00:01:24:f2:df:43 ) 00:27:36 (GMT) [ 16 65 49 ] # ( ) 0011 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( Downstairs ) BBS ( 00:09:5b:6a:40:e8 ) 00:27:56 (GMT) [ 12 61 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0400 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( depstein ) BBS ( 00:06:25:6d:a4:1b ) 00:27:56 (GMT) [ 17 66 49 ] # ( ) 0011 0400 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( dtfmwap2 ) BBS ( 00:0d:28:59:83:11 ) 00:29:17 (GMT) [ 8 57 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( tsunami ) BBS ( 00:40:96:32:9a:46 ) 00:29:50 (GMT) [ 27 76 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:0c:41:3d:7f:0a ) 00:30:02 (GMT) [ 24 73 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linkhear ) BBS ( 00:06:25:e6:d9:07 ) 00:30:11 (GMT) [ 31 80 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0020 0
N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( proxim ) BBS ( 00:02:2d:9d:e8:ce ) 00:30:11 (GMT) [ 14 63 49 ] # ( ) 0011 0002 0

wopper · 12-30-2003

After looking at map program I found a section that show all of the waypoints in the map (IE imported ones) and it shows all the APs, but as you see in the prior post with the data in it most of them have the same long and latt so the problem is with my gps or a setting in NS I will stumble once more and watch the GPS cords that display in NS and make shure there changing, theres a chance the battery saver mode might have shut my GPS off

and I was driving, so i might not have seen that it was off.
Once more thanks for the help I dont find the problem ill bring this post to life if I get stumped after that.

Madhadder · 12-31-2003

Try removing the Date$ thing in between the sections.
I know this caused problems for some converter progz
in the past.

wopper · 12-31-2003

if you look at the BSSID info in the post with the data you will see there all diffrent APs so deleting some of them would make NSing
not worth doing

Monitr7 · 12-31-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by wopper
if you look at the BSSID info in the post with the data you will see there all diffrent APs so deleting some of them would make NSing
not worth doing

wopper, Madhadder's most recent (deleted, changed, uh, transmogrified) post was directed at me for a post I have since deleted, as it wasted a helluva lot of space, with no real value. My bad.

Thorn · 12-31-2003

It's definately a GPS issue. The GPS was still sending out data, it was just inaccurate. NetStumbler would have reported a GPS Timeout error if there is a cable problem or the GPS had stopped sending data entirely. The log also would have shown a Lat. and Long. of all zeros it that was the case.

It depends on the GPS brand and model, but I've had GPS units do this kind of behavior under two circumstances:

Satellite signal lost.
Battery voltage is low.

In either case the GPS reports the last position data it had, and that's all it does.

The cures are making sure you have a good sky view for the GPS (ie. up near the windshield), and fresh batteries (or a voltage converter) for the car.

12-30-2003	#1 (permalink)
wopper Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 10	mappoint is mappoint the only program that can use netstumbler data ? or is ther another program by some miricle?

12-30-2003	#2 (permalink)
Thorn Did you do the math? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Villa Straylight Posts: 10,351	StumbVerter just converts to MapPoint. However, many programs can use NetStumbler data. It's all in the FAQs. __________________ Thorn "Read Altas Shrugged. Compare it to today. Repeat as necessary"

12-30-2003	#3 (permalink)
Madhadder General "Noob Basher" Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,620	The only one that is really supported and updated. Anything else is a hack job. __________________ Legends may sleep, but they never die!!!!

12-30-2003	#4 (permalink)
wopper Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 10	FAQS ok ill go stumble in the FAQS section once more

12-30-2003	#6 (permalink)
Thorn Did you do the math? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Villa Straylight Posts: 10,351	Yes. As stated, it is in the FAQs. The SEARCH function still works very well. <spoonfeed mode ON> http://forums.netstumbler.com/showth...urce#post37135 <spoonfeed mode OFF> __________________ Thorn "Read Altas Shrugged. Compare it to today. Repeat as necessary"

12-30-2003	#5 (permalink)
wopper Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 10	let me rephrase the question. can i use mapsource with netstumbler ? mapsource from the looks of it will only import .wpt .rte .trk .grm

12-30-2003	#7 (permalink)
wopper Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 10	spoonfeed mode that is a good one :P im just getting lazy from reading so many faqs. so anyway I went to your thread, the link to that software to convert to mapsource is dead so i searched out the converter on yahoo, found the site, got conveter, and support files to run vbs programs and it works? sorta it converts and imports to my map prog but all the APs in the netstumbler file theres about 25 of them do not all show up in the map program after import any ideas ? Last edited by wopper : 12-30-2003 at 07:56 PM.

12-30-2003	#8 (permalink)
Thorn Did you do the math? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Villa Straylight Posts: 10,351	Well, I'm not a Mapsource user, and I didn't author the Mapsourse converter, so this is strictly a SWAG (Scientific Wild-Assed Guess): Most of the time I see conversion errors with any map program, it's due it invalid Longitude/Latitude information. Make sure that the data is valid for those. NS 0.3.30 does not log GPS extended ORiNOCO networks. You'll get a blank on the Lat/Long. Make sure it's not those type of APs in there. Also, make sure you don't have any odd characters in the converted data. If there are 25 APs that were not imported, there has to be some common problem with them. See if there is anything obvious about them in NetStumbler, and in the summary files. __________________ Thorn "Read Altas Shrugged. Compare it to today. Repeat as necessary"

12-30-2003	#9 (permalink)
wopper Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 10	ok ill look over the export and see if it looks funny Thanks for all the help

12-30-2003	#10 (permalink)
wopper Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 10	hres what i got for a summary the long and lat loots messed up as you can see in the screenshot i have attached well heres the summary pasted it lookslike the img did not atach # $Creator: Network Stumbler Version 0.3.30 # $Format: wi-scan summary with extensions # Latitude Longitude ( SSID ) Type ( BSSID ) Time (GMT) [ SNR Sig Noise ] # ( Name ) Flags Channelbits BcnIntvl # $DateGMT: 2003-12-30 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( ozone ) BBS ( 00:06:25:f0:c1:6b ) 23:55:00 (GMT) [ 67 116 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4020 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( LEEROYAL ) BBS ( 00:10:e7:f5:c7:12 ) 23:56:52 (GMT) [ 39 88 49 ] # ( ) 0011 4002 0 N 26.6281571 W 81.8702529 ( WLAN ) BBS ( 00:30:bd:c2:18:46 ) 23:57:05 (GMT) [ 29 78 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4800 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( tsunami ) BBS ( 00:40:96:46:6a:10 ) 23:57:41 (GMT) [ 14 63 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4002 0 N 26.6348719 W 81.8704946 ( dtfmwap3 ) BBS ( 00:0d:28:59:85:20 ) 23:58:19 (GMT) [ 12 61 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4040 0 N 26.6355323 W 81.8705078 ( execwap ) BBS ( 00:0c:ce:c8:3f:ff ) 23:58:26 (GMT) [ 11 60 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6361904 W 81.8705169 ( dtfmwap1 ) BBS ( 00:0c:ce:c8:40:90 ) 23:58:28 (GMT) [ 37 86 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4040 0 N 26.6373542 W 81.8684464 ( NETGEAR ) BBS ( 00:09:5b:6e:ea:62 ) 23:58:57 (GMT) [ 30 79 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4800 0 N 26.6384469 W 81.8684696 ( aegis ) BBS ( 00:0c:41:b6:df:da ) 23:59:01 (GMT) [ 33 82 49 ] # ( ) 0011 4040 0 # $DateGMT: 2003-12-31 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( Beac WiFi ) BBS ( 00:02:2d:92:9a:ca ) 00:04:47 (GMT) [ 34 83 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4400 0 N 26.6592503 W 81.8746087 ( marina2 ) BBS ( 00:60:b3:8a:20:48 ) 00:05:28 (GMT) [ 15 64 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4010 0 N 26.6673577 W 81.8819800 ( gemranger ) BBS ( 00:06:25:50:31:53 ) 00:07:23 (GMT) [ 17 66 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4020 0 N 26.6673557 W 81.8821541 ( gemwireless ) BBS ( 00:40:05:bc:61:7f ) 00:07:28 (GMT) [ 11 60 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6585173 W 81.8835245 ( surfnet ) BBS ( 00:90:0e:00:7a:43 ) 00:19:35 (GMT) [ 36 85 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4800 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( Beaco WiFi ) BBS ( 00:02:2d:92:9a:ec ) 00:20:59 (GMT) [ 32 81 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4400 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:b6:00:9d ) 00:22:21 (GMT) [ 12 61 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( 5th fl isd ) BBS ( 00:90:4b:36:bf:80 ) 00:22:30 (GMT) [ 20 69 49 ] # ( ) 0011 0080 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:dd:11:6d ) 00:22:51 (GMT) [ 24 73 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( charris ) BBS ( 00:06:25:f0:eb:d5 ) 00:22:52 (GMT) [ 27 76 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:0c:41:a0:cc:f8 ) 00:23:00 (GMT) [ 15 64 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:71:b7:ad ) 00:23:04 (GMT) [ 22 71 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:df:3b:4b ) 00:23:46 (GMT) [ 14 63 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( NovusAIR ) BBS ( 00:0c:41:c1:70:35 ) 00:23:57 (GMT) [ 16 65 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0002 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( demo1 ) BBS ( 00:40:96:33:60:d7 ) 00:24:23 (GMT) [ 13 62 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0800 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( Airport ) BBS ( 00:30:65:1c:f3:80 ) 00:24:33 (GMT) [ 16 65 49 ] # ( ) 0011 4002 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( default ) BBS ( 00:50:18:05:fa:2c ) 00:24:41 (GMT) [ 26 75 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksysds ) BBS ( 00:06:25:a2:34:f0 ) 00:24:47 (GMT) [ 30 79 49 ] # ( ) 0011 4080 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:04:5a:f9:a7:b6 ) 00:24:48 (GMT) [ 34 83 49 ] # ( ) 0001 4040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:5d:75:09 ) 00:24:48 (GMT) [ 16 65 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:06:25:f0:ec:d7 ) 00:24:51 (GMT) [ 13 62 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( Lightni ) BBS ( 00:09:5b:6d:a6:a4 ) 00:26:31 (GMT) [ 22 71 49 ] # ( ) 0011 0080 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( district ) BBS ( 00:01:24:f2:df:43 ) 00:27:36 (GMT) [ 16 65 49 ] # ( ) 0011 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( Downstairs ) BBS ( 00:09:5b:6a:40:e8 ) 00:27:56 (GMT) [ 12 61 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0400 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( depstein ) BBS ( 00:06:25:6d:a4:1b ) 00:27:56 (GMT) [ 17 66 49 ] # ( ) 0011 0400 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( dtfmwap2 ) BBS ( 00:0d:28:59:83:11 ) 00:29:17 (GMT) [ 8 57 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( tsunami ) BBS ( 00:40:96:32:9a:46 ) 00:29:50 (GMT) [ 27 76 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linksys ) BBS ( 00:0c:41:3d:7f:0a ) 00:30:02 (GMT) [ 24 73 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0040 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( linkhear ) BBS ( 00:06:25:e6:d9:07 ) 00:30:11 (GMT) [ 31 80 49 ] # ( ) 0001 0020 0 N 26.6481449 W 81.8763292 ( proxim ) BBS ( 00:02:2d:9d:e8:ce ) 00:30:11 (GMT) [ 14 63 49 ] # ( ) 0011 0002 0 Last edited by wopper : 12-30-2003 at 11:04 PM.

12-30-2003	#11 (permalink)
wopper Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 10	After looking at map program I found a section that show all of the waypoints in the map (IE imported ones) and it shows all the APs, but as you see in the prior post with the data in it most of them have the same long and latt so the problem is with my gps or a setting in NS I will stumble once more and watch the GPS cords that display in NS and make shure there changing, theres a chance the battery saver mode might have shut my GPS off and I was driving, so i might not have seen that it was off. Once more thanks for the help I dont find the problem ill bring this post to life if I get stumped after that.

12-31-2003	#12 (permalink)
Madhadder General "Noob Basher" Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,620	Try removing the Date$ thing in between the sections. I know this caused problems for some converter progz in the past. __________________ Legends may sleep, but they never die!!!! Last edited by Madhadder : 12-31-2003 at 07:06 AM.

12-31-2003	#13 (permalink)
wopper Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 10	if you look at the BSSID info in the post with the data you will see there all diffrent APs so deleting some of them would make NSing not worth doing

12-31-2003	#15 (permalink)
Thorn Did you do the math? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Villa Straylight Posts: 10,351	It's definately a GPS issue. The GPS was still sending out data, it was just inaccurate. NetStumbler would have reported a GPS Timeout error if there is a cable problem or the GPS had stopped sending data entirely. The log also would have shown a Lat. and Long. of all zeros it that was the case. It depends on the GPS brand and model, but I've had GPS units do this kind of behavior under two circumstances: Satellite signal lost. Battery voltage is low. In either case the GPS reports the last position data it had, and that's all it does. The cures are making sure you have a good sky view for the GPS (ie. up near the windshield), and fresh batteries (or a voltage converter) for the car. __________________ Thorn "Read Altas Shrugged. Compare it to today. Repeat as necessary"

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