why does Kismet find AP's that Netstumbler/Ministumber miss?

mikeymustang · 03-02-2003

I was wondering why Kismet finds some AP's that NS/MS doesn't?....using the same wifi card ...same laptop same antenna?....Is it that NS/MS "requests" the SSID..and kismet is passive listening to everything?......the "reciever" (WIFI) card should act the same......just wondering

thanks

Mike

TheSovereign · 03-02-2003

some AP's are set to not broadcast their ssid

some ap's dont even allow it
such as the belkin mini ap
you have to set the ssid and hard type it in your settings

well when netstumbler sends out the beacon call these ap's ignore it and do not respond

kismet monitors all traffic from the wireless channel
since the ssid is in at least 8 packets a second coming from any AP
it can determine them without sending the beacon by merely analyzing them

agentgrn · 03-02-2003

Since Kismet monitors instead of using beacons, is it properly able to determine in WEP is configured on the AP?

I've had this in mind for awhile...no Linux laptop just yet.

mikeymustang · 03-02-2003

thanks TheSovereign:

Again you are very helpful!.......what i was wondering......I have a AP in my neighborhood.........I know this AP is far away.....NS finds this AP....when i drive close to it.......but ONLY Kismet finds it from my home.........maybe the AP isnt hearing my NS "request".. But it as it monitors the channel it hears it?.....thanks again

Mike

TheSovereign · 03-02-2003

for beacon calls u have to have a certain level of signal before the card will register it

for passive monitoring any packet that is detectable from noise will get thru
thats my kismet has a better psuedo range

Wanderer · 03-03-2003

For kismet to find something, all that needs to happen is for it to recieve a single beacon from the access point. For Netstumber to find an AP, it has to associate with the AP. Which means that the AP has to hear it, it has to respond to the AP, and the AP has to accept the response. All without going out of signal range.

Pretty tough, huh??

TheSovereign · 03-03-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Wanderer
For Netstumber to find an AP, it has to associate with the AP. Which means that the AP has to hear it, it has to respond to the AP, and the AP has to accept the response. All without going out of signal range.

Pretty tough, huh??

uhh no
netstumbler doesnt associate at all u have to do that yourself
all the ap has to do is hear the beacon it will automatically respond

the best way to explain this is a game of marco polo
does the guy yelling polo care who is saying marco? no

TML · 03-26-2003

Not being sarcastic but. . .

How do you play Marco Polo?

TheSovereign · 03-26-2003

i close my eyes and yell MARCO!
the person im trying to find yells POLO!
and i follow the sound until i find them
usually done in a swimming pool of some kind

the orinoco cards sends beacon "all your 802.11b are belong to us"

the access point resonds with its SSID

blackwave · 03-26-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSovereign
i close my eyes and yell MARCO!
the person im trying to find yells POLO!
and i follow the sound until i find them
usually done in a swimming pool of some kind

... don't forget when you get pulled over, that is like someone saying "fish out of water!"

03-02-2003	#1 (permalink)
mikeymustang Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 49	why does Kismet find AP's that Netstumbler/Ministumber miss? I was wondering why Kismet finds some AP's that NS/MS doesn't?....using the same wifi card ...same laptop same antenna?....Is it that NS/MS "requests" the SSID..and kismet is passive listening to everything?......the "reciever" (WIFI) card should act the same......just wondering thanks Mike

03-02-2003	#2 (permalink)
TheSovereign Master of the universe Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 658	some AP's are set to not broadcast their ssid some ap's dont even allow it such as the belkin mini ap you have to set the ssid and hard type it in your settings well when netstumbler sends out the beacon call these ap's ignore it and do not respond kismet monitors all traffic from the wireless channel since the ssid is in at least 8 packets a second coming from any AP it can determine them without sending the beacon by merely analyzing them __________________ SO SAYS TheSovereign

03-02-2003	#3 (permalink)
agentgrn KB1JQO - Packin' Heat Join Date: May 2002 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 517	Since Kismet monitors instead of using beacons, is it properly able to determine in WEP is configured on the AP? I've had this in mind for awhile...no Linux laptop just yet. __________________ -A.G.-

03-02-2003	#5 (permalink)
TheSovereign Master of the universe Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 658	for beacon calls u have to have a certain level of signal before the card will register it for passive monitoring any packet that is detectable from noise will get thru thats my kismet has a better psuedo range __________________ SO SAYS TheSovereign

03-26-2003	#9 (permalink)
TheSovereign Master of the universe Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 658	i close my eyes and yell MARCO! the person im trying to find yells POLO! and i follow the sound until i find them usually done in a swimming pool of some kind the orinoco cards sends beacon "all your 802.11b are belong to us" the access point resonds with its SSID __________________ SO SAYS TheSovereign

03-02-2003	#4 (permalink)
mikeymustang Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 49	thanks TheSovereign: Again you are very helpful!.......what i was wondering......I have a AP in my neighborhood.........I know this AP is far away.....NS finds this AP....when i drive close to it.......but ONLY Kismet finds it from my home.........maybe the AP isnt hearing my NS "request".. But it as it monitors the channel it hears it?.....thanks again Mike

03-03-2003	#6 (permalink)
Wanderer Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 70	For kismet to find something, all that needs to happen is for it to recieve a single beacon from the access point. For Netstumber to find an AP, it has to associate with the AP. Which means that the AP has to hear it, it has to respond to the AP, and the AP has to accept the response. All without going out of signal range. Pretty tough, huh??

03-26-2003	#8 (permalink)
TML Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 16	Not being sarcastic but. . . How do you play Marco Polo?

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