City Wide WiFi. Multiple Internet Connection Setup?

eviltoaster · 10-29-2004

I want to create a node/leaf network for a small town, where people can donate use of their DSL or Cable line (ISP permiting) to the public network. How could I go about doing this? I've thought of proxies, and a master DHCP server, but I really need to keep this simple and expandable. Any ideas on where to start?

-Thanks in advance

The Others · 10-30-2004

As long as it doesn't break the T's & C's of your internet providers; all people need to do is connect an open wireless router to their existing hardware and use an already decided upon SSID. No need for any centralised hardware, just get everyone to set their SSID to "Yourtown" and don't enable WEP.

eviltoaster · 10-31-2004

Great idea. I've been thinking a bit too complex.
I really want to have these access points bridged somehow. I want a wide connected network, so that people could transfer files locally faster.

I can think of a couple of ways to do this, but I think they might have their problems as well

First, I could have a computer w/ multiple wireless nics connected with yagis to the different access points, and then have them bridged.
Problems to overcome: DHCPs might conflict each other.

Second, I could use hardware hacked WET11 ethernet-wireless bridges w/ Yagis connect directly to the access points.
Same Problems as the first

King_Ice_Flash · 10-31-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by eviltoaster

Great idea. I've been thinking a bit too complex.
I really want to have these access points bridged somehow. I want a wide connected network, so that people could transfer files locally faster.

I can think of a couple of ways to do this, but I think they might have their problems as well

First, I could have a computer w/ multiple wireless nics connected with yagis to the different access points, and then have them bridged.
Problems to overcome: DHCPs might conflict each other.

Second, I could use hardware hacked WET11 ethernet-wireless bridges w/ Yagis connect directly to the access points.
Same Problems as the first

Use APs that support a repeater mode.

The Others · 10-31-2004

You could give all your subscribers a Sveasoft WRT54G in WDS mode, that way they'll all happily propagate the signal as your project grows. I've been considering something similar in a tiny rural town I spend spend time in. The only problem for me would be to get the internet there in the first place.

eviltoaster · 10-31-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Others

You could give all your subscribers a Sveasoft WRT54G in WDS mode, that way they'll all happily propagate the signal as your project grows. I've been considering something similar in a tiny rural town I spend spend time in. The only problem for me would be to get the internet there in the first place.

Oooooooooo interesting! Can you give me a link or details on how it works? I know that Buffalo routers support a proprietary Wireless Bridging, but thats only good for about 4 APs. The idea of a standardized router would be a good idea: easier to control for setup.

I'm actually trying to set this up in a small rual town in Texas. A couple of people get DirectWAV internet, and some others get it through a local WISP.

On another note: Isn't the WRT54G a linksys router model number?

eviltoaster · 10-31-2004

Okay, before you guys start flaming me for being an idiot, i decided to google it myself. And for all of those watching, I guess I'll show you what I found.

Sveasoft makes a hacked firmware for the Linksys WRT54G, that comes with many improvements. Among those are WDS, which is "wireless bridging" with up to 10 clients.
www.sveasoft.com

This is perfect, thanks for the idea. The best part is, it uses my favorate linksys router: dual antenna jacks, redundant memory, great range, good price.

Asking any of you with experience with the Sveasoft firmware, do you have any DHCP conflicts with WDS? If there is an 'non internet' AP connected via WDS to multiple AP's WITH internet, will there be any problems obtaining internet access through the other routers? Is there anything I should watch out for?

Getting these questions answered would be great. Once I get everything planned out, I'd like to start with a small test network to make sure there aren't any kinks to work out first.

The Others · 11-01-2004

This should help:

http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.p...iewtopic&t=704

LiquidEdge · 11-01-2004

Keep in mind that as soon as you throw things in WDS, no matter who's equipment, things start slowing down significantly between nodes. Even if hardware says it will support 10 clients, you don't want more than 3 hops from the Internet connection, otherwise it will get to slower than dial-up speeds. Any type of interference is going to increase this problem even further.

Zyxel makes a unit that does AP+Bridge mode which might be a little more suited to this project, but the cost is higher than the Linksys equipment you're talking about using.

If you're going to change the firmware on the Linksys too, make sure that its not the type of memory flash that only stays there until the router reboots (ie power loss or something). NoCatFlash works that way, so its something to look out for.

As far as the DHCP problem, I would build some sort of database, so when someone signs on to your project, you can tell them which IP's to use. Just give everyone a different class C on a private IP.

--Rick Dobbs

eviltoaster · 11-05-2004

I know that the rule of thumb for networks is <4 repeaters. I wasn't planning on going any further than that, but it is something to keep in mind for further expandability.

As for the DHCP, do you mean to assign each router a different range? Ex: Router1: 192.168.1.1-192.168.1.100 Router2: 192.168.2.1-192.168.2.100
I was planning on doing that, but my biggest concern is the WDS connection itself. Will the routers autonegociate? Or will they try to assign eachother IP addresses?

The linksys memory is Power Redundant Flash ROM. (That's why its my favorate router) You get a blackout, and your settings are still there when it reboots. I love it.

Can you give me some more information on that router you proposed? What does it do better? What's the price difference?

-Thanks for all your help

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW, ne1 know of some good places to buy outdoor omni antennas? I'm looking at 12dbi models for a good price. Only good place i've been to is Radiolabs.com

Rasman32.dll · 11-15-2004

Out of interest, How large is this town?
Also, you mentioned there being a WISP in town, could you collaborate with them and share equipment?

eviltoaster · 11-17-2004

The area i'm covering shouldn't be that much of an issue. Right now I'm only trying to set up the network in the "greater town area". The distance for now is only a couple of blocks between nodes.
The town itself isn't that robust, just a little spread out, so line of sight shouldn't be a problem.

On another note, I got an idea to create a local "website" on the network, where people could donate money (via paypal) to the project. It would be great if I could get the APs to automatically foward you to this site when you logged on to the network.
I've heard of different methods in doing this (m0n0wall, sveasoft firmware, etc), but will this interfere/cause problems with consoles connecting to the internet via a wireless bridge?

Lastly, if I had to have this whole network operate off of one 1.5mbps broadband connection, is there some sort of Website Caching System that could conserve bandwidth by caching frequently requested website data?
-Thanks

Thorn · 11-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by eviltoaster

The area i'm covering shouldn't be that much of an issue. Right now I'm only trying to set up the network in the "greater town area". The distance for now is only a couple of blocks between nodes.
The town itself isn't that robust, just a little spread out, so line of sight shouldn't be a problem.

On another note, I got an idea to create a local "website" on the network, where people could donate money (via paypal) to the project. It would be great if I could get the APs to automatically foward you to this site when you logged on to the network.
I've heard of different methods in doing this (m0n0wall, sveasoft firmware, etc), but will this interfere/cause problems with consoles connecting to the internet via a wireless bridge?

Lastly, if I had to have this whole network operate off of one 1.5mbps broadband connection, is there some sort of Website Caching System that could conserve bandwidth by caching frequently requested website data?
-Thanks

NoCat
Squid

10-29-2004	#1 (permalink)
eviltoaster Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19	City Wide WiFi. Multiple Internet Connection Setup? I want to create a node/leaf network for a small town, where people can donate use of their DSL or Cable line (ISP permiting) to the public network. How could I go about doing this? I've thought of proxies, and a master DHCP server, but I really need to keep this simple and expandable. Any ideas on where to start? -Thanks in advance

10-30-2004	#2 (permalink)
The Others PeaceDriver Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Dos Palabras, Mandoras Posts: 2,920	As long as it doesn't break the T's & C's of your internet providers; all people need to do is connect an open wireless router to their existing hardware and use an already decided upon SSID. No need for any centralised hardware, just get everyone to set their SSID to "Yourtown" and don't enable WEP. __________________ all good ends all ?u=273

10-31-2004	#5 (permalink)
The Others PeaceDriver Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Dos Palabras, Mandoras Posts: 2,920	You could give all your subscribers a Sveasoft WRT54G in WDS mode, that way they'll all happily propagate the signal as your project grows. I've been considering something similar in a tiny rural town I spend spend time in. The only problem for me would be to get the internet there in the first place. __________________ all good ends all ?u=273

11-01-2004	#8 (permalink)
The Others PeaceDriver Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Dos Palabras, Mandoras Posts: 2,920	This should help: http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.p...iewtopic&t=704 __________________ all good ends all ?u=273

11-05-2004	#10 (permalink)
eviltoaster Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19	I know that the rule of thumb for networks is <4 repeaters. I wasn't planning on going any further than that, but it is something to keep in mind for further expandability. As for the DHCP, do you mean to assign each router a different range? Ex: Router1: 192.168.1.1-192.168.1.100 Router2: 192.168.2.1-192.168.2.100 I was planning on doing that, but my biggest concern is the WDS connection itself. Will the routers autonegociate? Or will they try to assign eachother IP addresses? The linksys memory is Power Redundant Flash ROM. (That's why its my favorate router) You get a blackout, and your settings are still there when it reboots. I love it. Can you give me some more information on that router you proposed? What does it do better? What's the price difference? -Thanks for all your help -------------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW, ne1 know of some good places to buy outdoor omni antennas? I'm looking at 12dbi models for a good price. Only good place i've been to is Radiolabs.com Last edited by eviltoaster : 11-05-2004 at 04:35 PM.

10-31-2004	#3 (permalink)
eviltoaster Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19	Great idea. I've been thinking a bit too complex. I really want to have these access points bridged somehow. I want a wide connected network, so that people could transfer files locally faster. I can think of a couple of ways to do this, but I think they might have their problems as well First, I could have a computer w/ multiple wireless nics connected with yagis to the different access points, and then have them bridged. Problems to overcome: DHCPs might conflict each other. Second, I could use hardware hacked WET11 ethernet-wireless bridges w/ Yagis connect directly to the access points. Same Problems as the first

10-31-2004	#7 (permalink)
eviltoaster Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19	Okay, before you guys start flaming me for being an idiot, i decided to google it myself. And for all of those watching, I guess I'll show you what I found. Sveasoft makes a hacked firmware for the Linksys WRT54G, that comes with many improvements. Among those are WDS, which is "wireless bridging" with up to 10 clients. www.sveasoft.com This is perfect, thanks for the idea. The best part is, it uses my favorate linksys router: dual antenna jacks, redundant memory, great range, good price. Asking any of you with experience with the Sveasoft firmware, do you have any DHCP conflicts with WDS? If there is an 'non internet' AP connected via WDS to multiple AP's WITH internet, will there be any problems obtaining internet access through the other routers? Is there anything I should watch out for? Getting these questions answered would be great. Once I get everything planned out, I'd like to start with a small test network to make sure there aren't any kinks to work out first.

11-01-2004	#9 (permalink)
LiquidEdge Keeper of the Cheese Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 29	Keep in mind that as soon as you throw things in WDS, no matter who's equipment, things start slowing down significantly between nodes. Even if hardware says it will support 10 clients, you don't want more than 3 hops from the Internet connection, otherwise it will get to slower than dial-up speeds. Any type of interference is going to increase this problem even further. Zyxel makes a unit that does AP+Bridge mode which might be a little more suited to this project, but the cost is higher than the Linksys equipment you're talking about using. If you're going to change the firmware on the Linksys too, make sure that its not the type of memory flash that only stays there until the router reboots (ie power loss or something). NoCatFlash works that way, so its something to look out for. As far as the DHCP problem, I would build some sort of database, so when someone signs on to your project, you can tell them which IP's to use. Just give everyone a different class C on a private IP. --Rick Dobbs

11-15-2004	#11 (permalink)
Rasman32.dll Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7	Out of interest, How large is this town? Also, you mentioned there being a WISP in town, could you collaborate with them and share equipment?

11-17-2004	#12 (permalink)
eviltoaster Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19	The area i'm covering shouldn't be that much of an issue. Right now I'm only trying to set up the network in the "greater town area". The distance for now is only a couple of blocks between nodes. The town itself isn't that robust, just a little spread out, so line of sight shouldn't be a problem. On another note, I got an idea to create a local "website" on the network, where people could donate money (via paypal) to the project. It would be great if I could get the APs to automatically foward you to this site when you logged on to the network. I've heard of different methods in doing this (m0n0wall, sveasoft firmware, etc), but will this interfere/cause problems with consoles connecting to the internet via a wireless bridge? Lastly, if I had to have this whole network operate off of one 1.5mbps broadband connection, is there some sort of Website Caching System that could conserve bandwidth by caching frequently requested website data? -Thanks

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