Standard for public hotspots??

ewensell3 · 02-03-2005

Forgive me if this has been discussed. My Google skills aren't what they used to be. Point me to whatever site that describes all this.

Been looking around for a common standard for defining a hotspot as open for public use. So far all I have found is recommendations to put "open" somehwere in the SSID.

That's nice and all... Look for SSID=*open* ... Problem is my Windows wifi utils do not appear to have a means of looking for hotspots according to wildcards. Manually looking for and joining *open* hotspots as I'm riding (someone else driving) down the interstate sounds like a chore.

What would be nice is if those who want to provide open access could all agree upon a common [set of] SSID and/or WEP key. Then all I have to do is create a "Public Only" profile with that information and feel fairly confident that when my laptop/device automagically joins a hotspot that it is one other people have explicitly setup for public use. That way I don't accidently join John Q. Public's out-of-the-box-never-read-the-instructions and panics-whenever-the-adsl-modem-light-blinks SSID=linksys/default/belkin54g WAP.

IIRC, some of the smaller community networks do this. Would be nice if we could do something similar on the nationwide level.

Thanks!

Dutch · 02-03-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewensell3

Forgive me if this has been discussed. My Google skills aren't what they used to be. Point me to whatever site that describes all this.

Been looking around for a common standard for defining a hotspot as open for public use. So far all I have found is recommendations to put "open" somehwere in the SSID.

That's nice and all... Look for SSID=*open* ... Problem is my Windows wifi utils do not appear to have a means of looking for hotspots according to wildcards. Manually looking for and joining *open* hotspots as I'm riding (someone else driving) down the interstate sounds like a chore.

What would be nice is if those who want to provide open access could all agree upon a common [set of] SSID and/or WEP key. Then all I have to do is create a "Public Only" profile with that information and feel fairly confident that when my laptop/device automagically joins a hotspot that it is one other people have explicitly setup for public use. That way I don't accidently join John Q. Public's out-of-the-box-never-read-the-instructions and panics-whenever-the-adsl-modem-light-blinks SSID=linksys/default/belkin54g WAP.

IIRC, some of the smaller community networks do this. Would be nice if we could do something similar on the nationwide level.

Thanks!

Yeah.. Better write your congressman and propose it as a legislative bill...

What a load of BS.. It's YOUR responsibility to insure you only connect to AP's that you are authorized to.. It's NOT those who decide they want to share their bandwith with others problem.

Dutch

wrzwaldo · 02-03-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewensell3

...

That's nice and all... Look for SSID=*open* ... Problem is my Windows wifi utils do not appear to have a means of looking for hotspots according to wildcards. Manually looking for and joining *open* hotspots as I'm riding (someone else driving) down the interstate sounds like a chore.

...

How fast you driviving (riding) down the interstate? Unless you are sitting in traffic it seems that you would be out of range before you were able to do anything with the connection.

As for your original question, I found this with google (#1 return).

http://www.wififreespot.com/

ewensell3 · 02-03-2005

Wow. Get cut down right out of the gate. I like this place.

> Yeah.. Better write your congressman and propose it as a legislative
> bill...

Y'know, a standard is simply a bunch of people agreeing to do the same thing. No need to get the lawyers involved over this.

> What a load of BS.. It's YOUR responsibility to insure you only connect to
> AP's that you are authorized to.. It's NOT those who decide they want to
> share their bandwith with others problem.

Here, let me paint a better picture of what I have in mind.

In the HAM radio world, they have this thing called APRS. It's a fairly simple connectionless UDP-style packet radio network originally setup for GPS tracking of devices/vehicles/etc. Nowadays it is used for GPS, passing weather information, text messaging, and various other short connectionless-type network operations. The network relies on kind-hearted people to have the right equipment on their base stations and all use the same frequency (144.39 to be precise).

Well, I would like to basically attempt the same thing, but with 802.11 . For starters, I'd like to create my own LoJack type device I could place in my truck. It would scan for open 802.11 access points, and if it finds one and can make a connection, send a couple HTTP packets to a server with current GPS information. Granted it probably wouldn't work at interstate speeds, but I'm more interested in just making it work. Truck and driver has to stop for gas and toilet sometime.

Problem is, being a responsible person, I don't want my device to accidentally use AP's I'm not authorized to use. It would probably be possible to avoid such problems with lists of open hotspots like what's availble from some sites, but that seems like a headache to maintain. And from what I've been reading, not many people have written a script that can reliably join SSID=*open* APs. I suppose I could subscribe to a pay network, but they aren't very widespread yet. Ok, in all honesty I'm just cheap.

That's when I got to thinking it sure would be nice if those of us with purposefully open APs could all agree on a common set of SSIDs and/or WEP keys so other people like me could setup preferred roaming profiles on our wifi tools and devices and rest assured that our automated devices are only connecting to APs we have explicit permission to use. If one want's to get more elaborate, use additional software for verification.

Pay networks like Boingo use a combination of common SSIDs, keys, and software to achieve this. Small community freenets do something similar. Why can't a bunch of hobbyists do something like this at the nationwide level??

I find it hard to believe this isn't already being done.

streaker69 · 02-03-2005

It's an interesting concept, and probably in a few more years it'll be possible to set up something like that.

nashr · 02-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewensell3

Wow. Get cut down right out of the gate. I like this place.

Here, let me paint a better picture of what I have in mind.

Well, I would like to basically attempt the same thing, but with 802.11 . For starters, I'd like to create my own LoJack type device I could place in my truck. It would scan for open 802.11 access points, and if it finds one and can make a connection, send a couple HTTP packets to a server with current GPS information. Granted it probably wouldn't work at interstate speeds, but I'm more interested in just making it work. Truck and driver has to stop for gas and toilet sometime.

Problem is, being a responsible person, I don't want my device to accidentally use AP's I'm not authorized to use. It would probably be possible to avoid such problems with lists of open hotspots like what's availble from some sites, but that seems like a headache to maintain. And from what I've been reading, not many people have written a script that can reliably join SSID=*open* APs. I suppose I could subscribe to a pay network, but they aren't very widespread yet. Ok, in all honesty I'm just cheap.

I find it hard to believe this isn't already being done.

Okay, so make a script (really easy) that waits for a network connection and dumps a log of info. You can do this without automating the connection. If someone steals your laptop they're going to actually try to use it sometime.

Forget about identifying appropriate connections and using them... just wait for a connection and dump your info. When YOU are out and about make sure YOU don't connect to any APs without permission. When a bad guy steals your laptop and tries to use it your script will send a log of data across the internet.

Standards? We don't need no stinkin standards.

ewensell3 · 02-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashr

Standards? We don't need no stinkin standards.

Fine... Let's all stop using TCP/IP and do our own thing then. The heck with IPv4 or IPv6. While we're at it, how about we ignore the W3C spec and make a web browser with HTML tags that only our web browser understands.... Oh....

Evidentally building community and facilitating universal network access is not a big thing around here. Ahwell. I'll just go back to my padded cell.

Sooner Al · 02-04-2005

...there was an effort to setup a nationwide 802.11b wireless network... It was called LanLinkUp... Their web site no longer exists, however...

Some old links concerning this...

http://scoop.freenetworks.org/story/.../28/64237/2976

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/14/0241230

nashr · 02-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewensell3

Fine... Let's all stop using TCP/IP and do our own thing then. The heck with IPv4 or IPv6. While we're at it, how about we ignore the W3C spec and make a web browser with HTML tags that only our web browser understands.... Oh....

Evidentally building community and facilitating universal network access is not a big thing around here. Ahwell. I'll just go back to my padded cell.

Oh piss off, and yes... go back the padded cell without wifi access.

02-03-2005	#1 (permalink)
ewensell3 Been there, done that... Join Date: May 2004 Location: E. TN USA Posts: 4	Standard for public hotspots?? Forgive me if this has been discussed. My Google skills aren't what they used to be. Point me to whatever site that describes all this. Been looking around for a common standard for defining a hotspot as open for public use. So far all I have found is recommendations to put "open" somehwere in the SSID. That's nice and all... Look for SSID=open ... Problem is my Windows wifi utils do not appear to have a means of looking for hotspots according to wildcards. Manually looking for and joining open hotspots as I'm riding (someone else driving) down the interstate sounds like a chore. What would be nice is if those who want to provide open access could all agree upon a common [set of] SSID and/or WEP key. Then all I have to do is create a "Public Only" profile with that information and feel fairly confident that when my laptop/device automagically joins a hotspot that it is one other people have explicitly setup for public use. That way I don't accidently join John Q. Public's out-of-the-box-never-read-the-instructions and panics-whenever-the-adsl-modem-light-blinks SSID=linksys/default/belkin54g WAP. IIRC, some of the smaller community networks do this. Would be nice if we could do something similar on the nationwide level. Thanks!

02-03-2005	#5 (permalink)
streaker69 Psychic Amish Stumbler Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Virginville, BlueBall, Bird In Hand, Intercourse, Paradise, PA Posts: 11,650	It's an interesting concept, and probably in a few more years it'll be possible to set up something like that. __________________ "One of these days, I'm going to cut you to pieces." If you're offended by this post, please feel free to report it to one of the many helpful moderators of this forum. Thank you.

02-04-2005	#8 (permalink)
Sooner Al Old Enough to Know Better Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Norman, Oklahoma Posts: 63	At one time... ...there was an effort to setup a nationwide 802.11b wireless network... It was called LanLinkUp... Their web site no longer exists, however... Some old links concerning this... http://scoop.freenetworks.org/story/.../28/64237/2976 http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/14/0241230 __________________ "When all else fails, read the instructions..."

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02-03-2005	#4 (permalink)
ewensell3 Been there, done that... Join Date: May 2004 Location: E. TN USA Posts: 4	Wow. Get cut down right out of the gate. I like this place. > Yeah.. Better write your congressman and propose it as a legislative > bill... Y'know, a standard is simply a bunch of people agreeing to do the same thing. No need to get the lawyers involved over this. > What a load of BS.. It's YOUR responsibility to insure you only connect to > AP's that you are authorized to.. It's NOT those who decide they want to > share their bandwith with others problem. Here, let me paint a better picture of what I have in mind. In the HAM radio world, they have this thing called APRS. It's a fairly simple connectionless UDP-style packet radio network originally setup for GPS tracking of devices/vehicles/etc. Nowadays it is used for GPS, passing weather information, text messaging, and various other short connectionless-type network operations. The network relies on kind-hearted people to have the right equipment on their base stations and all use the same frequency (144.39 to be precise). Well, I would like to basically attempt the same thing, but with 802.11 . For starters, I'd like to create my own LoJack type device I could place in my truck. It would scan for open 802.11 access points, and if it finds one and can make a connection, send a couple HTTP packets to a server with current GPS information. Granted it probably wouldn't work at interstate speeds, but I'm more interested in just making it work. Truck and driver has to stop for gas and toilet sometime. Problem is, being a responsible person, I don't want my device to accidentally use AP's I'm not authorized to use. It would probably be possible to avoid such problems with lists of open hotspots like what's availble from some sites, but that seems like a headache to maintain. And from what I've been reading, not many people have written a script that can reliably join SSID=open APs. I suppose I could subscribe to a pay network, but they aren't very widespread yet. Ok, in all honesty I'm just cheap. That's when I got to thinking it sure would be nice if those of us with purposefully open APs could all agree on a common set of SSIDs and/or WEP keys so other people like me could setup preferred roaming profiles on our wifi tools and devices and rest assured that our automated devices are only connecting to APs we have explicit permission to use. If one want's to get more elaborate, use additional software for verification. Pay networks like Boingo use a combination of common SSIDs, keys, and software to achieve this. Small community freenets do something similar. Why can't a bunch of hobbyists do something like this at the nationwide level?? I find it hard to believe this isn't already being done.