Pimp the Barn, with WiFi-bling (Split from : Help with 1 mile network setup!) - Page 2

Barry · 03-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

How to test for extreme cold temps in women :
She's a cold beatch : When a tear freezes to ice before passing the nosetip.
She's an extreme cold beatch : If the central heating boiler starts, when she spreads the legs in the bedroom...

Dutch

To quote a movie,

"That's going to chafe my willy!"

wiresalot · 03-07-2006

Quote:

I'm still waiting for someone to send me one to test at extreme cold temps.

From FAB Corps Description.

Quote:

The customer’s electronic equipment is protected within a 16' x 14' x 1' weatherproof compartment , big enough to house transceivers, access points, routers, amplifiers and other electronic equipment.

Barry, You could even install electric heat in that compartment!

wiresalot

streaker69 · 03-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry

To quote a movie,

"That's going to chafe my willy!"

Robin Hood, Men in Tights

Sleeping Dog · 03-07-2006

Yahoo! The meeting let out early. I'm back (at least until I have to get ready to go out this evening).

I just checked out the link to the Rootenna that Streaker suggested. I like the ability to put the WRT54g inside it (reducing cable length). The only downside that I noticed would be not being able to see the lights on the front that verify my hardwired connections. (OK...call me old fashioned.) Maybe I could cut a window in the ABS "pouch" on the housing and bond in a small Lexan window?

Please educate me further... The specs say "Vertical or horizontal polarization.
I can mount an antenna almost anywhere and in any position on the barn, but there is only one place on the house where I can put it.... on the underside of a high porch roof. That is the ONLY place on the house where I have clear LOS to the barn and no trees, shrubs, electric fences, steel horse feeders, etc. in the way. Does "vertical or horizontal polarization" mean that I can mount it flat on the underside of the porch roof and still achieve directionality? My sister did specify that she would prefer not having something TOO obvious attached to the house, so putting it on a pole is not really an option for me. Also, the house is not oriented "square" with the barn, so the unit will need to point (or be rotated) about 18.5 degrees off line from the "plane" of the back of the house.

I like the weatherproof characteristics of the Rootenna. The price at $42.20 is also very attractive.

Thank you for the suggestion and the link. I probably would not have found the Rootenna on my own.

SD

Sleeping Dog · 03-07-2006

Good question about cold weather operation! That evokes another question that I would have regarding the Rootenna. The WRT54g that I installed for a client does get slightly warm during normal operation. The pictures that I saw of the Rootenna seem to show that everything is pretty well "sealed up". Would trapped heat in the unit become an issue for the WRT54g... especially on a Summer day when it is 105 degrees in the shade? I have always heard that the biggest enemies of solid state electronics are excessive heat and moisture.

SD

Airstreamer · 03-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Dog

Yahoo! The meeting let out early. I'm back (at least until I have to get ready to go out this evening).

I just checked out the link to the Rootenna that Streaker suggested. I like the ability to put the WRT54g inside it (reducing cable length). The only downside that I noticed would be not being able to see the lights on the front that verify my hardwired connections. (OK...call me old fashioned.) Maybe I could cut a window in the ABS "pouch" on the housing and bond in a small Lexan window?

Please educate me further... The specs say "Vertical or horizontal polarization.
I can mount an antenna almost anywhere and in any position on the barn, but there is only one place on the house where I can put it.... on the underside of a high porch roof. That is the ONLY place on the house where I have clear LOS to the barn and no trees, shrubs, electric fences, steel horse feeders, etc. in the way. Does "vertical or horizontal polarization" mean that I can mount it flat on the underside of the porch roof and still achieve directionality? My sister did specify that she would prefer not having something TOO obvious attached to the house, so putting it on a pole is not really an option for me. Also, the house is not oriented "square" with the barn, so the unit will need to point (or be rotated) about 18.5 degrees off line from the "plane" of the back of the house.

I like the weatherproof characteristics of the Rootenna. The price at $42.20 is also very attractive.

Thank you for the suggestion and the link. I probably would not have found the Rootenna on my own.

SD

Just mount both antennas in the same 'plane' ie: If the elements are horizontal to the ground on one, mount the other one in same orientation. If you have one vertical, and the other one horizontal, you lose 15 db of signal right off the bat. (Hint: This works for interference suppression, if you are running Ch 6 and somebody else is also on ch 6 that has just enough signal to slow your link down, try using the opposite polarity on YOUR link.) Keep them away from metal flashings on the roof edge, by 5-6" at least. (There is a calculation based on the wavelength of the signal as to how far to keep a yagi type antenna away from metal, but I forget where it is, and I'm too lazy to go look right now!)

I would also suggest you go do a bit of searching out in internetland. There are lots of sites that have basic antenna theory that won't make your head explode, but still give you the information you need. (ARRL site for example.)

Sleeping Dog · 03-07-2006

Thank you for the explanation. I have very little background in antenna theory.

Oh GOD! I am such a numb-nuts. My best friend was a radio and radar guy on a Navy ASW P-3 Orion. I'll bet he could give me some "hands-on" help with the antenna installations so that I don't screw things up too badly.

My sister's house has a metal roof, but the facia is wood and only overhangs the underside of the porch ceiling about 3/4 inch. The bottom of the gutter is about 4 inches above that. I could mount the Rootenna about 3 inches beneath the porch ceiling and be clear of the gutter by at least 7 inches. It also probably wouldn't look as goofy as a Yagi tube.

May I also presume that the above ground elevations of the antennae should optimally be the same, assuming that the "ground level elevation" of both buildings is the same? (or am I being TOO anal about planning the installation?)

Please forgive my questions that may seem simplistic and obvious to the more knowledgable among you, but in the past, I have seen little things get overlooked on big projects that caused major headaches.

Again, kind regards and many thanks for your help and suggestions.

SD

Airstreamer · 03-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Dog

Thank you for the explanation. I have very little background in antenna theory.

Oh GOD! I am such a numb-nuts. My best friend was a radio and radar guy on a Navy ASW P-3 Orion. I'll bet he could give me some "hands-on" help with the antenna installations so that I don't screw things up too badly.

My sister's house has a metal roof, but the facia is wood and only overhangs the underside of the porch ceiling about 3/4 inch. The bottom of the gutter is about 4 inches above that. I could mount the Rootenna about 3 inches beneath the porch ceiling and be clear of the gutter by at least 7 inches. It also probably wouldn't look as goofy as a Yagi tube.

May I also presume that the above ground elevations of the antennae should optimally be the same, assuming that the "ground level elevation" of both buildings is the same? (or am I being TOO anal about planning the installation?)

Please forgive my questions that may seem simplistic and obvious to the more knowledgable among you, but in the past, I have seen little things get overlooked on big projects that caused major headaches.

Again, kind regards and many thanks for your help and suggestions.

SD

No. Just so they have a clear view of each other, without stuff being too close to the center of said view along the path. (Search Fresnel effect or zone in reference to microwave radio transmission.) At 2.4Ghz, you are not going to have to worry much about being close to the ground, in relative terms, anyway. At low frequencies/long wavelength, say 40 meters, (approx. 7 mHz, or 0.007 Ghz) yagi type directional antennas get all kinds weirdness if they aren't up high enough. Again, it has to do with the clearance vs. wavelength calculation.

Sleeping Dog · 03-08-2006

I would like to take this opportunity to extend a compliment to all of you on this site who have been so kind and gracious as to take time out of your days to help me with this project.

There are some sites out there in WebLand that tend to be populated with people who think that flaunting their knowledge with rudeness and sarcasm makes them appear to be intelligent. That has not been my experience here.

I greatly appreciate all of your generosity in the sharing of your knowledge and experience in a mature and noncondecending manner. I have found this discourse so far to be refreshing, enjoyable, educational and very helpful. The courtesy that you have extended to me has demonstrated that I am communicating with people of integrety and personal worth.

Again, I extend my thanks and appreciation.

I plan to order the hardware on Monday of this coming week. I will continue to watch this thread for suggestions and advice. Additionally, I will "report back" with any information on both problems and successes that I encounter. Maybe it might help someone else learn more as I am learning from all of you.

Kindest Regards

Sleeping Dog

Dutch · 03-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Dog

I would like to take this opportunity to extend a compliment to all of you on this site who have been so kind and gracious as to take time out of your days to help me with this project.

There are some sites out there in WebLand that tend to be populated with people who think that flaunting their knowledge with rudeness and sarcasm makes them appear to be intelligent. That has not been my experience here.

I greatly appreciate all of your generosity in the sharing of your knowledge and experience in a mature and noncondecending manner. I have found this discourse so far to be refreshing, enjoyable, educational and very helpful. The courtesy that you have extended to me has demonstrated that I am communicating with people of integrety and personal worth.

Again, I extend my thanks and appreciation.

I plan to order the hardware on Monday of this coming week. I will continue to watch this thread for suggestions and advice. Additionally, I will "report back" with any information on both problems and successes that I encounter. Maybe it might help someone else learn more as I am learning from all of you.

Kindest Regards

Sleeping Dog

I know some people will think that you must be in an alternate universe, when they read your post.
But it seems like you get it : When we are rude and sarcastic towards people on this forum, it isn't to flaunt our knowledge. It is to flaunt their stupidity.

You did the right thing, compared to the multitude of tards who have ended up in the bin. You showed that you had done some legwork, you didn't expect to be spoonfeed, and you tried to ask intelligent questions. And you didn't come in here with an demanding attitude. If you read through the threads in the Newbie Bin, you can see how different your approach to getting help has been.

Keep it that way, and you will feel right at home here on the NS forums.

Dutch

streaker69 · 03-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

I know some people will think that you must be in an alternate universe, when they read your post.
But it seems like you get it : When we are rude and sarcastic towards people on this forum, it isn't to flaunt our knowledge. It is to flaunt their stupidity.

You did the right thing, compared to the multitude of tards who have ended up in the bin. You showed that you had done some legwork, you didn't expect to be spoonfeed, and you tried to ask intelligent questions. And you didn't come in here with an demanding attitude. If you read through the threads in the Newbie Bin, you can see how different your approach to getting help has been.

Keep it that way, and you will feel right at home here on the NS forums.

Dutch

I believe the Wi-fi-Fu is strong in this one. He shows promise.

Sleeping Dog · 03-08-2006

Per info that Dutch provided earlier in this thread, I have done some more research on the WRT54G family of wireless routers. I found what appears to be good comparative model descriptions and differences in version numbers at:
http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpB...asc&highlight=

I also found a short yet informative discourse on power-boosting these routers. It is as follows:

Legality And Power Limits:

The stock firmware radio output power is fixed at 28 mw by Linksys. The Sveasoft firmware allows adjustment of the power from 0 to 251 mw.

The legality of changing the power depends on the local regulations and the antennas used. In some areas using the full 251 mw and the stock antennas is illegal. In others it is still far under the allowable limits.

Some examples:

EU countries limit the maximum radiated power to 20 dBi. The stock antennas are 2.2 dBi and this means a maximum power setting of of 17.8 dBm for the radio. The maximum radio power setting is thus 61 mw for a total of 20 dBi.

North America limits are much higher and the maximum allowable radiated power for point to multipoint links is 36 dBi. In the US with the stock antennas and 251 mw you will produce just over 26 dBi. Thus you can add much stronger 12 dBi antennas and still meet the 36 dBi limit.

The higher power settings do not generally mean higher throughput. But for long links they can mean the difference between a working link and none at all.

Needless to say, it would appear that I have some experimenting to look forward to on the firmware side as well as the hardware.

I am now leaning toward the WRT54GS model. It has a faster processor and twice as much RAM as the "G" and they only costs about ten bucks more each. Thanks to the suggestion that I consider the Rootenna instead of the Yagi, I now have that 20 available in the budget.

If anyone is interested, there is a short description and a good picture of the `guts' at:
http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpB...pic.php?t=1178

Thanks to your help, I am now VERY excited about and motivated to move forward with this project. (Kinda' like a four year old a week before Christmas.)

Sleeping Dog

Airstreamer · 03-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Dog

Per info that Dutch provided earlier in this thread, I have done some more research on the WRT54G family of wireless routers. I found what appears to be good comparative model descriptions and differences in version numbers at:
http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpB...asc&highlight=

I also found a short yet informative discourse on power-boosting these routers. It is as follows:

Legality And Power Limits:

The stock firmware radio output power is fixed at 28 mw by Linksys. The Sveasoft firmware allows adjustment of the power from 0 to 251 mw.

The legality of changing the power depends on the local regulations and the antennas used. In some areas using the full 251 mw and the stock antennas is illegal. In others it is still far under the allowable limits.

Some examples:

EU countries limit the maximum radiated power to 20 dBi. The stock antennas are 2.2 dBi and this means a maximum power setting of of 17.8 dBm for the radio. The maximum radio power setting is thus 61 mw for a total of 20 dBi.

North America limits are much higher and the maximum allowable radiated power for point to multipoint links is 36 dBi. In the US with the stock antennas and 251 mw you will produce just over 26 dBi. Thus you can add much stronger 12 dBi antennas and still meet the 36 dBi limit.

The higher power settings do not generally mean higher throughput. But for long links they can mean the difference between a working link and none at all.

Needless to say, it would appear that I have some experimenting to look forward to on the firmware side as well as the hardware.

I am now leaning toward the WRT54GS model. It has a faster processor and twice as much RAM as the "G" and they only costs about ten bucks more each. Thanks to the suggestion that I consider the Rootenna instead of the Yagi, I now have that 20 available in the budget.

If anyone is interested, there is a short description and a good picture of the `guts' at:
http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpB...pic.php?t=1178

Thanks to your help, I am now VERY excited about and motivated to move forward with this project. (Kinda' like a four year old a week before Christmas.)

Sleeping Dog

The problem with setting the power higher has been addressed on the forum before. Show us that your search-foo is getting stronger, Grasshopper!

ZipperSeven · 03-08-2006

Just an example of what a power boosted AP actually 'looks' like:

http://melbourne.wireless.org.au/wiki/?SVECWLAP

Airstreamer · 03-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZipperSeven

Just an example of what a power boosted AP actually 'looks' like:

http://melbourne.wireless.org.au/wiki/?SVECWLAP

Spoonfeeder!

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03-07-2006	#19 (permalink)
Sleeping Dog Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 76	Yahoo! The meeting let out early. I'm back (at least until I have to get ready to go out this evening). I just checked out the link to the Rootenna that Streaker suggested. I like the ability to put the WRT54g inside it (reducing cable length). The only downside that I noticed would be not being able to see the lights on the front that verify my hardwired connections. (OK...call me old fashioned.) Maybe I could cut a window in the ABS "pouch" on the housing and bond in a small Lexan window? Please educate me further... The specs say "Vertical or horizontal polarization. I can mount an antenna almost anywhere and in any position on the barn, but there is only one place on the house where I can put it.... on the underside of a high porch roof. That is the ONLY place on the house where I have clear LOS to the barn and no trees, shrubs, electric fences, steel horse feeders, etc. in the way. Does "vertical or horizontal polarization" mean that I can mount it flat on the underside of the porch roof and still achieve directionality? My sister did specify that she would prefer not having something TOO obvious attached to the house, so putting it on a pole is not really an option for me. Also, the house is not oriented "square" with the barn, so the unit will need to point (or be rotated) about 18.5 degrees off line from the "plane" of the back of the house. I like the weatherproof characteristics of the Rootenna. The price at $42.20 is also very attractive. Thank you for the suggestion and the link. I probably would not have found the Rootenna on my own. SD

03-07-2006	#20 (permalink)
Sleeping Dog Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 76	Good question about cold weather operation! That evokes another question that I would have regarding the Rootenna. The WRT54g that I installed for a client does get slightly warm during normal operation. The pictures that I saw of the Rootenna seem to show that everything is pretty well "sealed up". Would trapped heat in the unit become an issue for the WRT54g... especially on a Summer day when it is 105 degrees in the shade? I have always heard that the biggest enemies of solid state electronics are excessive heat and moisture. SD

03-07-2006	#22 (permalink)
Sleeping Dog Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 76	Thank you for the explanation. I have very little background in antenna theory. Oh GOD! I am such a numb-nuts. My best friend was a radio and radar guy on a Navy ASW P-3 Orion. I'll bet he could give me some "hands-on" help with the antenna installations so that I don't screw things up too badly. My sister's house has a metal roof, but the facia is wood and only overhangs the underside of the porch ceiling about 3/4 inch. The bottom of the gutter is about 4 inches above that. I could mount the Rootenna about 3 inches beneath the porch ceiling and be clear of the gutter by at least 7 inches. It also probably wouldn't look as goofy as a Yagi tube. May I also presume that the above ground elevations of the antennae should optimally be the same, assuming that the "ground level elevation" of both buildings is the same? (or am I being TOO anal about planning the installation?) Please forgive my questions that may seem simplistic and obvious to the more knowledgable among you, but in the past, I have seen little things get overlooked on big projects that caused major headaches. Again, kind regards and many thanks for your help and suggestions. SD

03-08-2006	#24 (permalink)
Sleeping Dog Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 76	I would like to take this opportunity to extend a compliment to all of you on this site who have been so kind and gracious as to take time out of your days to help me with this project. There are some sites out there in WebLand that tend to be populated with people who think that flaunting their knowledge with rudeness and sarcasm makes them appear to be intelligent. That has not been my experience here. I greatly appreciate all of your generosity in the sharing of your knowledge and experience in a mature and noncondecending manner. I have found this discourse so far to be refreshing, enjoyable, educational and very helpful. The courtesy that you have extended to me has demonstrated that I am communicating with people of integrety and personal worth. Again, I extend my thanks and appreciation. I plan to order the hardware on Monday of this coming week. I will continue to watch this thread for suggestions and advice. Additionally, I will "report back" with any information on both problems and successes that I encounter. Maybe it might help someone else learn more as I am learning from all of you. Kindest Regards Sleeping Dog

03-08-2006	#27 (permalink)
Sleeping Dog Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 76	Per info that Dutch provided earlier in this thread, I have done some more research on the WRT54G family of wireless routers. I found what appears to be good comparative model descriptions and differences in version numbers at: http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpB...asc&highlight= I also found a short yet informative discourse on power-boosting these routers. It is as follows: Legality And Power Limits: The stock firmware radio output power is fixed at 28 mw by Linksys. The Sveasoft firmware allows adjustment of the power from 0 to 251 mw. The legality of changing the power depends on the local regulations and the antennas used. In some areas using the full 251 mw and the stock antennas is illegal. In others it is still far under the allowable limits. Some examples: EU countries limit the maximum radiated power to 20 dBi. The stock antennas are 2.2 dBi and this means a maximum power setting of of 17.8 dBm for the radio. The maximum radio power setting is thus 61 mw for a total of 20 dBi. North America limits are much higher and the maximum allowable radiated power for point to multipoint links is 36 dBi. In the US with the stock antennas and 251 mw you will produce just over 26 dBi. Thus you can add much stronger 12 dBi antennas and still meet the 36 dBi limit. The higher power settings do not generally mean higher throughput. But for long links they can mean the difference between a working link and none at all. Needless to say, it would appear that I have some experimenting to look forward to on the firmware side as well as the hardware. I am now leaning toward the WRT54GS model. It has a faster processor and twice as much RAM as the "G" and they only costs about ten bucks more each. Thanks to the suggestion that I consider the Rootenna instead of the Yagi, I now have that 20 available in the budget. If anyone is interested, there is a short description and a good picture of the `guts' at: http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpB...pic.php?t=1178 Thanks to your help, I am now VERY excited about and motivated to move forward with this project. (Kinda' like a four year old a week before Christmas.) Sleeping Dog