802.11a anyone?

agentgrn · 05-28-2002

Has anyone out there had a chance to check out any of the emerging 802.11a items?

I'm considering adding a .11a AP to my home setup by the start of the fall with any luck. I've been pretty happy with the available info/hacks for my WAP11, so I'm considering a WAP54 (Linksys).

This will eventually be cool stuff to stumble for, though given the more limited range of .11a, I can imagine some pretty high-gain antennas are going to be required to get the WLAN range we're used to getting with .11b.

Ebay only has stuff from SMC and Netgear at the moment, though.

Any other thoughts/comments?

blackwave · 05-28-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by agentgrn

Any other thoughts/comments?

Just an FYI in case you haven't seen it :
http://forums.netstumbler.com/showth...&threadid=1990

http://forums.netstumbler.com/showth...hlight=802.11a

I am interested in some of they hybrid a/b cards that are supposed to come out... would love to hear more.

acidrayne · 05-28-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by blackwave
I am interested in some of they hybrid a/b cards that are supposed to come out... would love to hear more.

Ive seen an AP advertised by Orinoco that is a hybrid ... Nothing about a card that would work the same way though

http://www.orinocowireless.com/templ...27&envelope=94

blackwave · 05-28-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by acidrayne

Ive seen an AP advertised by Orinoco that is a hybrid ... Nothing about a card that would work the same way though

http://www.orinocowireless.com/templ...27&envelope=94

Thanks for the URL. I noticed this in the blurb:
"Dual mode 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz – Supports networks operating on
----either the Wi-Fi 2.4 GHz (11 Mbit/s) or 5 GHz (54 Mbit/s)
----frequencies. "

which makes it sound like there is a switch for exclusive modes... especially because it mentioned that it was for migration.
BUT.. the following blurb:

"The AP-2000 platform, with its 233MHz StrongArm 110 processor, has enough power to simultaneously support the new 54 Mbit/s 5GHz technology together with established 11Mbps Wi-Fi technology, as well as be ready for new 802.11g technology. "

Explains that it works with both at the same time

Now if I could only find a card that does the same

Damn just checked out the pcmall price for the AP-2000, they are going for 600$USD... I could only imagine how much a card would cost.

acidrayne · 05-28-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by blackwave
"The AP-2000 platform, with its 233MHz StrongArm 110 processor, has enough power to simultaneously support the new 54 Mbit/s 5GHz technology together with established 11Mbps Wi-Fi technology, as well as be ready for new 802.11g technology. "

Could someone clarify for me what the 802.11g is? This is the 54MB transfer not the Linksys 802.11a correct?

Quote:

Explains that it works with both at the same time Now if I could only find a card that does the same

Would be nice to have the ability to work with the higher transfer rates and with the current technology.

Quote:

Damn just checked out the pcmall price for the AP-2000, they are going for 600$USD... I could only imagine how much a card would cost.

Judging by the list price of the Linksys WPC54a ...

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...321835&loc=101

... of $220 but the price buy.com is selling it for of $129.95 I could see a wide range of pricing.

lincomatic · 05-28-2002

802.11g is just the same as 802.11a but @ the 2.4GHz freq that 802.11b uses.

acidrayne · 05-28-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by lincomatic
802.11g is just the same as 802.11a but @ the 2.4GHz freq that 802.11b uses.

I see ... So .11a runs at 54Meg rates with the 72Meg turbo mode and it runs at 5GHz and .11g runs at 54Meg on the 2.4GHz range?

blackwave · 05-28-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by acidrayne

I see ... So .11a runs at 54Meg rates with the 72Meg turbo mode and it runs at 5GHz and .11g runs at 54Meg on the 2.4GHz range?

Found this:
http://www.extremetech.com/article/0...=3&ap=4,00.asp

Excerpt:
"One argument in favor of the newly proposed and partially approved 802.11g wireless network standard has been that 802.11g, which uses the same 2.4GHz radio frequency as 802.11b, is Wi-Fi compatible. You shouldn't read that to mean that if you use 802.11b cards with an 802.11g access point that the 802.11b cards will run faster - they won't. "

lincomatic · 05-28-2002

this link off of bw's link puts everything in a nutshell:

http://www.extremetech.com/article/0...=1&ap=2,00.asp

acidrayne · 05-28-2002

Good article ... I personally think that 802.11g will be a more viable solution for wireless than 802.11a although .11a would be using a higher frequency.

lincomatic · 05-28-2002

some pundits are saying that 11g is stillborn...that 11a will pick up enough steam before 11g even starts to ship. personally, i think 11g might have trouble w/ performance since the 2.4GHz band is already so crowded. and i was disappointed to see that TI and Intersil's competing technologies got into the spec (their proprietary methods of doing high rate in the 2.4GHz freq band). this will only delay 11g even more and increase the cost of the devices.

fordem · 05-28-2002

Another thing to bear in mind about .11a is that the higher freq. is more susceptible to attenuation - and typically has a shorter range

lincomatic · 05-28-2002

i've heard various opinions from people about the purported shorter range... some think it's shorter, some think it's about the same. if anyone's done any real world tests, please post the results.

agentgrn · 05-28-2002

The LinkSys site states that there's an indoor range of roughly 328' (1148'/350m outdoor), or close to 100m for their WAP54. On the other hand, the WAP 11 is rated for up to 50m indoors (250'/820m outdoors) @11mbit and 150m indoors (1640'/500m outdoor) @ 1mb.

A difference of about 500' can probably be made up with by use of a really good omni antenna for stumbling purposes, though.

The PDF of the user manual on the LinkSys site seems to show the outer diameters of the .11a and .11b signal to be similar, but with lower thruputs (obviously) on the outer bands.

The real-world reality (a.k.a. my apartment) is that I can't seem to rove more than 30' away before the signal and speed start to degrade...and it's a wood-construction building. Still, the signal is enough to stumble across (was...until I disabled the SSID broadcasts).

linkomatic - it's possible the outer limits of the protocols could be similar. Since I'm looking at getting a WAP54 in the next couple of months, I might be able to do some testing (if the ring for my GF / summer move doesn't bankrupt me) towards the end of the summer.

acidrayne - I think .11g is a lame duck. The disadvantages are enough to justify going to .11a for anything seriously high speed. The 2.4GHz band is far too overcrowded. Besides, .11a has eight actual usable channels...which .11b doesn't have (1, 6, 11 don't interfere with each other).

lincomatic · 05-28-2002

agentgrn,
cool. keep us posted if u get the WAP54.

yeah my feeling is it's prob got very short range for the higher data rates, but at the lower ones it's comparable.

05-28-2002	#1 (permalink)
agentgrn KB1JQO - Packin' Heat Join Date: May 2002 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 517	802.11a anyone? Has anyone out there had a chance to check out any of the emerging 802.11a items? I'm considering adding a .11a AP to my home setup by the start of the fall with any luck. I've been pretty happy with the available info/hacks for my WAP11, so I'm considering a WAP54 (Linksys). This will eventually be cool stuff to stumble for, though given the more limited range of .11a, I can imagine some pretty high-gain antennas are going to be required to get the WLAN range we're used to getting with .11b. Ebay only has stuff from SMC and Netgear at the moment, though. Any other thoughts/comments? __________________ -A.G.-

05-28-2002	#6 (permalink)
lincomatic Squaaawk! WiFi! WiFi! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tinsel Town Posts: 1,682	802.11g is just the same as 802.11a but @ the 2.4GHz freq that 802.11b uses. __________________ ~lincomatic

05-28-2002	#9 (permalink)
lincomatic Squaaawk! WiFi! WiFi! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tinsel Town Posts: 1,682	this link off of bw's link puts everything in a nutshell: http://www.extremetech.com/article/0...=1&ap=2,00.asp __________________ ~lincomatic

05-28-2002	#10 (permalink)
acidrayne Slacker Stumbler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas Posts: 476	Good article ... I personally think that 802.11g will be a more viable solution for wireless than 802.11a although .11a would be using a higher frequency. __________________ Rayne

05-28-2002	#11 (permalink)
lincomatic Squaaawk! WiFi! WiFi! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tinsel Town Posts: 1,682	some pundits are saying that 11g is stillborn...that 11a will pick up enough steam before 11g even starts to ship. personally, i think 11g might have trouble w/ performance since the 2.4GHz band is already so crowded. and i was disappointed to see that TI and Intersil's competing technologies got into the spec (their proprietary methods of doing high rate in the 2.4GHz freq band). this will only delay 11g even more and increase the cost of the devices. __________________ ~lincomatic

05-28-2002	#12 (permalink)
fordem Tropical Stumbler Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 575	Another thing to bear in mind about .11a is that the higher freq. is more susceptible to attenuation - and typically has a shorter range

05-28-2002	#13 (permalink)
lincomatic Squaaawk! WiFi! WiFi! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tinsel Town Posts: 1,682	i've heard various opinions from people about the purported shorter range... some think it's shorter, some think it's about the same. if anyone's done any real world tests, please post the results. __________________ ~lincomatic

05-28-2002	#14 (permalink)
agentgrn KB1JQO - Packin' Heat Join Date: May 2002 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 517	The LinkSys site states that there's an indoor range of roughly 328' (1148'/350m outdoor), or close to 100m for their WAP54. On the other hand, the WAP 11 is rated for up to 50m indoors (250'/820m outdoors) @11mbit and 150m indoors (1640'/500m outdoor) @ 1mb. A difference of about 500' can probably be made up with by use of a really good omni antenna for stumbling purposes, though. The PDF of the user manual on the LinkSys site seems to show the outer diameters of the .11a and .11b signal to be similar, but with lower thruputs (obviously) on the outer bands. The real-world reality (a.k.a. my apartment) is that I can't seem to rove more than 30' away before the signal and speed start to degrade...and it's a wood-construction building. Still, the signal is enough to stumble across (was...until I disabled the SSID broadcasts). linkomatic - it's possible the outer limits of the protocols could be similar. Since I'm looking at getting a WAP54 in the next couple of months, I might be able to do some testing (if the ring for my GF / summer move doesn't bankrupt me) towards the end of the summer. acidrayne - I think .11g is a lame duck. The disadvantages are enough to justify going to .11a for anything seriously high speed. The 2.4GHz band is far too overcrowded. Besides, .11a has eight actual usable channels...which .11b doesn't have (1, 6, 11 don't interfere with each other). __________________ -A.G.-

05-28-2002	#15 (permalink)
lincomatic Squaaawk! WiFi! WiFi! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tinsel Town Posts: 1,682	agentgrn, cool. keep us posted if u get the WAP54. yeah my feeling is it's prob got very short range for the higher data rates, but at the lower ones it's comparable. __________________ ~lincomatic

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