antenna to reach 3.5 mi?

teg9 · 03-11-2003

Just got my orinoco gold card today, and tried to see what the netstumbler can do for me and drove around my place. And I stumbled on a hotel that has a Wayport Access, 3.5 mi away from my house lined up directly on the same street. Parked in front of it and tried the Boingo software that came with it. And it showed that it is one of their hotspots. They're offering 49 bucks for an unlimited access to the internet. And thought this might be my only chance of getting a high speed internet in my place since the cable and dsl companies here can't provide it in my location.

Can someone here help me how can I reach that hotspot from 3.5 mi away from my house? Is it possible? Theres only a residential areas inbetween the hotel and my house no big trees just cactuses. Can you guys tell me exactly what to get from fab corp or other site to be able to access the hotspot. I will greatly appreciate any help that I can get from you guys.

agentgrn · 03-12-2003

First question is...does Boingo even allow that kind of a connection?

If it's all cool, you need to have line-of-sight to the hotel's AP, and you'll need at least a yagi to do that. I don't expect cacti to cause much trouble, but a house in between you and the hotel will be a problem. Don't forget about the fresnel zone too. Might not be a bad idea to pound out a beefy cantenna and see if you even get a signal.

teg9 · 03-12-2003

I wanted to subscribe to boingo and access them through their hotspot in that hotel. Do I really need an absolute 100% obstruction free line of sight between my house and the hotel? The only obstruction that I can think of are some of the comercial buildings that might be taller than the hotel, and a football field of a nearby Highschool too,and some power lines. The hotel is only two story high or not even. Netstumbler showed a cisco aironet AP. Why do you suggest a yagi? Does is it have the longest range? How much dbi do I need to reach at least 4 mi? How about the 19 dBi Parabolic Grid Antenna from fab corp? thx for the reply.

agentgrn · 03-12-2003

In rare circumstances will WiFi work with a multipath signal around an object...so yeah...you need a line-of-sight link. At the very least, you need to be able to see the hotel from wherever you put your antenna.

Since microwaves like to go straight, anything in the way is very likely to absorb some or all of the signal. Maybe some kind of rooftop mount is a choice you can make, but maybe not.

I suggested a yagi 'cos they're cheap and easy to build, instead of forking over a ton of cash on a parabolic right off the bat.

norm · 03-12-2003

arent the hotel only likely to offer local subscriber access. i.e. within a proximity of about 300m maximum and therefore have the hardware to suit, i.e. low gain aerials.

you may have the sufficient hardware at your end of the link but they will likely not.

only other option i guess, if the yagi fails is use a yagi+amp.

will help boost the perceived incomming signal (to an extent) and outgoing (depending on the power amp you choose).

teg9 · 03-12-2003

Pretty sure nearby residentials takes advantage of their service, remember picking up a SSSID Fuck_Off nearby the hotel.

Amp would probably the one would stop me from using because of the prices I've seen they're running. Guess I would just have to be content sharing my dialup to my homenetwork.

teg9 · 03-12-2003

ok lets say I have a line of sight of the hotel, how many dbi do I need to reach 4 mi? 49 bucks for a 19 dBi Parabolic Grid Antenna
at fabcorp doesn't look that bad. Would that reach 4 mi.? thx

Thorn · 03-12-2003

It is impossible to say based on limited information. There is not an easy yes/no answer, nor is there some magic "dBi" number that will insure that your signal reaches a given distance.

Because you are dealing with 2-way radios, it is dependant on the ERP at both ends. Do the math, and you'll know.

jeffrowe · 03-12-2003

Your plan is possible but unlikely...

simply put, a 4 mile link is an easy thing, however, the first thign said is that those 4 mile links are usually setup in a very precise way... the links are usually directional antenna to directional antenna... IE, yagi to disk, dish to dish, dish to sector... etc...

The local Wireless WIFI companies in my area cna do this easy, but they are aiming at a friggin tall ass tower, which has sector antenna's overing very specific area's... ie: an Ideal situation...

your problem is that you not only need to have a good Line of site with the hotel, but be lucky enough that the part of the building you can see happens to have an AP or antenna and that the signal is powerful enough for you to recieve...

it cant hurt, but I wouldnt expect much... Try this... make sure you have line of site... then find a stumbler in your area that has a decent homeade Yagi and is willing to help you out... odd's are good that even if you manage it you might need the damn thing up on the roof on a pole just to get a good signal... it might be more work than it is worth... or more than you are capable of....

hellbound · 07-24-2004

4 mile by 19 dbi? its not only antenna that effect the link coverage but your device RF power, you may need to put one AP with WDS support or two bridge close to the Boingo Hotspot which have LOS to AP and LOS to your home to repeat the signal to your house, you may have to ask someone else to allow you to install antenna and bridge in their roof top and I would recommend to get 24 dbi antenna , install your antenna in roof center where there is LOS to destination and Less LOS to area to prevent interference (not like what I did) and you tell you that you have alot of effort to put on this.

03-11-2003	#1 (permalink)
teg9 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Phoenix,AZ Posts: 14	antenna to reach 3.5 mi? Just got my orinoco gold card today, and tried to see what the netstumbler can do for me and drove around my place. And I stumbled on a hotel that has a Wayport Access, 3.5 mi away from my house lined up directly on the same street. Parked in front of it and tried the Boingo software that came with it. And it showed that it is one of their hotspots. They're offering 49 bucks for an unlimited access to the internet. And thought this might be my only chance of getting a high speed internet in my place since the cable and dsl companies here can't provide it in my location. Can someone here help me how can I reach that hotspot from 3.5 mi away from my house? Is it possible? Theres only a residential areas inbetween the hotel and my house no big trees just cactuses. Can you guys tell me exactly what to get from fab corp or other site to be able to access the hotspot. I will greatly appreciate any help that I can get from you guys.

03-12-2003	#2 (permalink)
agentgrn KB1JQO - Packin' Heat Join Date: May 2002 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 517	First question is...does Boingo even allow that kind of a connection? If it's all cool, you need to have line-of-sight to the hotel's AP, and you'll need at least a yagi to do that. I don't expect cacti to cause much trouble, but a house in between you and the hotel will be a problem. Don't forget about the fresnel zone too. Might not be a bad idea to pound out a beefy cantenna and see if you even get a signal. __________________ -A.G.-

03-12-2003	#4 (permalink)
agentgrn KB1JQO - Packin' Heat Join Date: May 2002 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 517	In rare circumstances will WiFi work with a multipath signal around an object...so yeah...you need a line-of-sight link. At the very least, you need to be able to see the hotel from wherever you put your antenna. Since microwaves like to go straight, anything in the way is very likely to absorb some or all of the signal. Maybe some kind of rooftop mount is a choice you can make, but maybe not. I suggested a yagi 'cos they're cheap and easy to build, instead of forking over a ton of cash on a parabolic right off the bat. __________________ -A.G.-

03-12-2003	#8 (permalink)
Thorn Did you do the math? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Villa Straylight Posts: 10,361	It is impossible to say based on limited information. There is not an easy yes/no answer, nor is there some magic "dBi" number that will insure that your signal reaches a given distance. Because you are dealing with 2-way radios, it is dependant on the ERP at both ends. Do the math, and you'll know. __________________ Thorn "Read Altas Shrugged. Compare it to today. Repeat as necessary"

03-12-2003	#9 (permalink)
jeffrowe Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northern Suburbs, Chicago, IL Posts: 142	Possible but unlikely... Your plan is possible but unlikely... simply put, a 4 mile link is an easy thing, however, the first thign said is that those 4 mile links are usually setup in a very precise way... the links are usually directional antenna to directional antenna... IE, yagi to disk, dish to dish, dish to sector... etc... The local Wireless WIFI companies in my area cna do this easy, but they are aiming at a friggin tall ass tower, which has sector antenna's overing very specific area's... ie: an Ideal situation... your problem is that you not only need to have a good Line of site with the hotel, but be lucky enough that the part of the building you can see happens to have an AP or antenna and that the signal is powerful enough for you to recieve... it cant hurt, but I wouldnt expect much... Try this... make sure you have line of site... then find a stumbler in your area that has a decent homeade Yagi and is willing to help you out... odd's are good that even if you manage it you might need the damn thing up on the roof on a pole just to get a good signal... it might be more work than it is worth... or more than you are capable of.... __________________ -Jeffrowe

03-12-2003	#3 (permalink)
teg9 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Phoenix,AZ Posts: 14	I wanted to subscribe to boingo and access them through their hotspot in that hotel. Do I really need an absolute 100% obstruction free line of sight between my house and the hotel? The only obstruction that I can think of are some of the comercial buildings that might be taller than the hotel, and a football field of a nearby Highschool too,and some power lines. The hotel is only two story high or not even. Netstumbler showed a cisco aironet AP. Why do you suggest a yagi? Does is it have the longest range? How much dbi do I need to reach at least 4 mi? How about the 19 dBi Parabolic Grid Antenna from fab corp? thx for the reply.

03-12-2003	#5 (permalink)
norm Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: UK Posts: 69	arent the hotel only likely to offer local subscriber access. i.e. within a proximity of about 300m maximum and therefore have the hardware to suit, i.e. low gain aerials. you may have the sufficient hardware at your end of the link but they will likely not. only other option i guess, if the yagi fails is use a yagi+amp. will help boost the perceived incomming signal (to an extent) and outgoing (depending on the power amp you choose).

03-12-2003	#6 (permalink)
teg9 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Phoenix,AZ Posts: 14	Pretty sure nearby residentials takes advantage of their service, remember picking up a SSSID Fuck_Off nearby the hotel. Amp would probably the one would stop me from using because of the prices I've seen they're running. Guess I would just have to be content sharing my dialup to my homenetwork.

03-12-2003	#7 (permalink)
teg9 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Phoenix,AZ Posts: 14	ok lets say I have a line of sight of the hotel, how many dbi do I need to reach 4 mi? 49 bucks for a 19 dBi Parabolic Grid Antenna at fabcorp doesn't look that bad. Would that reach 4 mi.? thx

07-24-2004	#10 (permalink)
hellbound Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9	4 mile by 19 dbi? its not only antenna that effect the link coverage but your device RF power, you may need to put one AP with WDS support or two bridge close to the Boingo Hotspot which have LOS to AP and LOS to your home to repeat the signal to your house, you may have to ask someone else to allow you to install antenna and bridge in their roof top and I would recommend to get 24 dbi antenna , install your antenna in roof center where there is LOS to destination and Less LOS to area to prevent interference (not like what I did) and you tell you that you have alot of effort to put on this.

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