DirecTv dish

DagNasty · 02-08-2006

So I've been looking into doing the primestar dish mod with a diy biquad design, but after looking at dish specs for both primestar and directv they both seem to be designed for frequencies below 2.4ghz. I only have a directv dish to work with and was wondering if anyone could give me some input. I can't find anything on google comparing the directv dish to the primestar dish.

Should I ditch the directv dish and search around for a primestar?

Since the dish isn't made for 2.4ghz is there a major difference on what could be acheived with a dish that is? (be it custom made or readily availiable) Why does it work so well if it's not meant for the 2.4ghz band?

Have any of you guys messed with them? How far did you personally manage to get a decent point to point connection?

As of yet I do not currently have a use for it. I am only making it (or 2 of them) for educational purposes. Perhaps in the future I could pass on the signal from 10 story building to elsewhere as a charity for the local free wireless dudes.

Airstreamer · 02-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DagNasty

So I've been looking into doing the primestar dish mod with a diy biquad design, but after looking at dish specs for both primestar and directv they both seem to be designed for frequencies below 2.4ghz. I only have a directv dish to work with and was wondering if anyone could give me some input. I can't find anything on google comparing the directv dish to the primestar dish.

Should I ditch the directv dish and search around for a primestar?

Since the dish isn't made for 2.4ghz is there a major difference on what could be acheived with a dish that is? (be it custom made or readily availiable) Why does it work so well if it's not meant for the 2.4ghz band?

Have any of you guys messed with them? How far did you personally manage to get a decent point to point connection?

As of yet I do not currently have a use for it. I am only making it (or 2 of them) for educational purposes. Perhaps in the future I could pass on the signal from 10 story building to elsewhere as a charity for the local free wireless dudes.

Wrong. They're made for the 'Ku' band. 11 to about 12 gHz.

Google is your friend, please use it.

DagNasty · 02-09-2006

http://cgi.ebay.com/Primestar-Dish-K...QQcmdZViewItem

This is where I got my info. He states that it was for the KU band also, but he also states that it's for "Frequency range 950-2150 MHZ." Perhaps he's wrong. Big deal.

While it may not be true for everyone, I use google extensively before attempting to ask any type of question. Why wait hours when I get an answer with google instantly?

All of the search results at this forum returned extremely old posts. None of them had an accurate comparison. (by testing) I would do the math but I don't have either the primestar or directv dish on hand. I figured maybe as time went on there would more likely be people who have compared the two or at least heard of people who compared the two.

Most of the search results turned up a post with the response telling them to use google or the search feature. Some of them deserved it, but none of them were asking about a comparison between the two.

Also, not EVERY single person here who has tried it has posted their results (such as distance).

Please don't be so quick to tell people to search. Sometimes the information is terribly old or completely nonexistant. It's very hard to have an active discussion here without someone jumping in and commanding a search.

Thorn · 02-09-2006

Those type of posts tend to be old, because the RF physics never changes. Unlike computer software or hardware, it isn't outdated in 3 months.

A Primestar dish, a DirecTV dish, and a Dish Network dish will all work about the same. While satellite TV dishes are designed for 10-12GHz, they all will work for 2.4Hz. Generally, you will obtain a gain of 25-30dBi and a 20-30º beamwidth. The variations I've seen are more dependant on materials and construction techniques than the actual dishes used.

As to "distance": You could get 20 miles or you could get 2 feet. By itself, distance and range are a null questions. You have to know the gain of the antenna. This will depend on the actual unit, and your skills. Once you know the gain, you can apply that to the standard equations involving PtP calculations. Those results will in turn be influenced by the terrain, height above ground, gain at the receiver, receiver senstivity, etc.

In other words, you have to do the math.

theprez98 · 02-09-2006

Time to dig the ol' DirecTV dish out of the closet!

dakkon2k · 02-09-2006

DagNasty,
It may surprise you that not everyone here has time/money to experiment with all the ideas out there. Those that do may not post their findings here, hell they may not even know NS exists. So YOU may have to be the ground braker, and spring for the parts and post your findings.

I tried my google.com foo out...
3 month old article on directv 2.4 ant. yielded the following;
8 mile useable range ~
Of course range is subjective, could be as little as 8 foot to 80 milies.

14 month old article for Primestar
10 mile range~
Of course range is subjective, could be as little as 8 foot to 80 milies.

14 months isn't terribly old IMHO esp. when dealing with an antenna.

Awww damn I guess just proved you didn't google for shiat.
It wasn't real hard, both results were gleaned within the first 10 results of searching.
"directv" + wifi
"primestar" + wifi

Airstreamer · 02-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakkon2k

DagNasty,
It may surprise you that not everyone here has time/money to experiment with all the ideas out there. Those that do may not post their findings here, hell they may not even know NS exists. So YOU may have to be the ground braker, and spring for the parts and post your findings.

I tried my google.com foo out...
3 month old article on directv 2.4 ant. yielded the following;
8 mile useable range ~
Of course range is subjective, could be as little as 8 foot to 80 milies.

14 month old article for Primestar
10 mile range~
Of course range is subjective, could be as little as 8 foot to 80 milies.

14 months isn't terribly old IMHO esp. when dealing with an antenna.

Awww damn I guess just proved you didn't google for shiat.
It wasn't real hard, both results were gleaned within the first 10 results of searching.
"directv" + wifi
"primestar" + wifi

Not to mention the stuff that has the 120+ mile hops with the Big Ugly Dishes...

@Dagnasty: You could have easily gone out YOURSELF and checked the frequency bands in question JUST LIKE I DID before posting my reply. I already knew the answer, having worked with satellite technology in the past. I just wanted to verify the information was easily available before posting. Just as dakkon2k indicated, I also had multiple hits with links to BASIC information about satellite frequency ranges, dish sizes, etc. within the first 10 hits, thus the 'search' notation in my reply, so please don't piss and moan about being told to search.

wrzwaldo · 02-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DagNasty

http://cgi.ebay.com/Primestar-Dish-K...QQcmdZViewItem

This is where I got my info. He states that it was for the KU band also, but he also states that it's for "Frequency range 950-2150 MHZ." Perhaps he's wrong. Big deal.

I imagine he is...

http://members.tripod.com/The_Uplinker/kufreq.html

Imagine that, an ebay listing that is wrong.

DagNasty · 02-09-2006

Both of which I've already visited. Neither contain the information I was looking for.

COMPARING

Quote:

Originally Posted by DagNasty

I can't find anything on google comparing the directv dish to the primestar dish.

YOUR PERSONAL RESULTS

Quote:

Originally Posted by DagNasty

How far did you personally manage to get a decent point to point connection?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DagNasty

Since the dish isn't made for 2.4ghz is there a major difference on what could be acheived with a dish that is? (be it custom made or readily availiable) Why does it work so well if it's not meant for the 2.4ghz band?

dakkon2k · 02-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DagNasty

How far did you personally manage to get a decent point to point connection?

You should contact/email the authors of the articles, they could answer that question. I haven't built a "dishstarway" antenna YET. Not that I have looked for or asked people to save them for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DagNasty

Both of which I've already visited. Neither contain the information I was looking for.

Well since YOU have NOT stated what information YOU are looking for...
Mind reading via the internet isn't easy, Streaker69 may have to get involved.
I'm beting that if you contact/email them they can supply you with all the info. you want.

If you are looking for dish specs (physical) then yes google can answer that.
If you are looking for info on Bi-Quads then yes google can answer that.
If you are looking for db gain/loss on a "Dishstarway" antenna google will point you to those that could answer the question.

**edit**
Guess we could ask the same question of;
Can-tennas, why do they work? They weren't made for 2.4. They were made to hold food.
"Strainer"-tennas, why do they work? They weren't made for 2.4. They were made to strain substances.

DagNasty · 02-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakkon2k

Well since YOU have NOT stated what information YOU are looking for...
Mind reading via the internet isn't easy.

Oh shit, sorry. I was wondering which works better as a hubcap. I lost my last 4 of them running over context clue bumps. You're right. I should have specified it in my first post.

dakkon2k · 02-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by DagNasty

Oh shit, sorry. I was wondering which works better as a hubcap. I lost my last 4 of them running over context clue bumps. You're right. I should have specified it in my first post.

I'm useing them for dog food/water dishes.

*
After spoonfeeding links to you what more can we do? There is multiple sites/people that have made WiFi antennas from Dish/Primestar/DirecWay. Most have some some links to Bi-Quad info. Most have decent math showing the db gain.

Barry · 02-09-2006

You can use a hubcap as a wifi antenna??

Scruge · 02-09-2006

@ DagNasty
The seller is more than likely referring to the RF and IF frequencies of the LNB. RF in verse IF out.
I'm not sure why in your case that's important. I don't think you're going to be able to use a Ku band LNB for wifi.

As for comparisons brands shouldn't matter. The size of the dish will dictate gain.

DagNasty · 02-09-2006

Scruge:
It's not the brand I was worrying about. From what I've learned the actual form of the dish has an adverse affect on the amount (if any) of gain. That's why I was asking. I assumed DirecTv ditched the primestar dishes because their form isn't made for the directv band. Let's say you have 1 dish and you feed it 2 different frequencies. Would the focal point be the same for the 2 dishes?

dakkon2k: You've just adapted into being very presumptious, but I do not blame you, for I have seen at least 1 forum in my life. Why not just save yourself the time and not even post if it seems someone is looking to be spoonfed? Honestly, I was not.

02-08-2006	#1 (permalink)
DagNasty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 78	DirecTv dish So I've been looking into doing the primestar dish mod with a diy biquad design, but after looking at dish specs for both primestar and directv they both seem to be designed for frequencies below 2.4ghz. I only have a directv dish to work with and was wondering if anyone could give me some input. I can't find anything on google comparing the directv dish to the primestar dish. Should I ditch the directv dish and search around for a primestar? Since the dish isn't made for 2.4ghz is there a major difference on what could be acheived with a dish that is? (be it custom made or readily availiable) Why does it work so well if it's not meant for the 2.4ghz band? Have any of you guys messed with them? How far did you personally manage to get a decent point to point connection? As of yet I do not currently have a use for it. I am only making it (or 2 of them) for educational purposes. Perhaps in the future I could pass on the signal from 10 story building to elsewhere as a charity for the local free wireless dudes.

02-09-2006	#4 (permalink)
Thorn Did you do the math? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Villa Straylight Posts: 10,042	Those type of posts tend to be old, because the RF physics never changes. Unlike computer software or hardware, it isn't outdated in 3 months. A Primestar dish, a DirecTV dish, and a Dish Network dish will all work about the same. While satellite TV dishes are designed for 10-12GHz, they all will work for 2.4Hz. Generally, you will obtain a gain of 25-30dBi and a 20-30º beamwidth. The variations I've seen are more dependant on materials and construction techniques than the actual dishes used. As to "distance": You could get 20 miles or you could get 2 feet. By itself, distance and range are a null questions. You have to know the gain of the antenna. This will depend on the actual unit, and your skills. Once you know the gain, you can apply that to the standard equations involving PtP calculations. Those results will in turn be influenced by the terrain, height above ground, gain at the receiver, receiver senstivity, etc. In other words, you have to do the math. __________________ Thorn "Lawyers should never marry lawyers. This is called inbreeding. It produces idiot children and more lawyers."

02-09-2006	#5 (permalink)
theprez98 SpoonfeederExtraordinaire Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,618	Time to dig the ol' DirecTV dish out of the closet! __________________ :00475160 0E A6 AE A0 19 E3 A3 46 .......F :00475168 0D 65 17 0C 53 70 6F 6F .e..Spoo :00475170 6E 66 65 65 64 65 72 2E nfeeder. :00475178 45 78 74 72 61 6F 72 64 Extraord :00475180 69 6E 61 69 72 65 5D 3B inaire]; :00475188 8B 9E 92 5A FF 5D A6 F0 ...Z.]..

02-09-2006	#6 (permalink)
dakkon2k proselyte Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Quite a bit EAST & a smidgen south of the world famous Rat. 2 miles from the beach or 1/2 a mile from a golf course and liquor store, or 2 miles from a Gun store or 5 miles from a hooters or a "adult nightclub" Posts: 894	DagNasty, It may surprise you that not everyone here has time/money to experiment with all the ideas out there. Those that do may not post their findings here, hell they may not even know NS exists. So YOU may have to be the ground braker, and spring for the parts and post your findings. I tried my google.com foo out... 3 month old article on directv 2.4 ant. yielded the following; 8 mile useable range ~ Of course range is subjective, could be as little as 8 foot to 80 milies. 14 month old article for Primestar 10 mile range~ Of course range is subjective, could be as little as 8 foot to 80 milies. 14 months isn't terribly old IMHO esp. when dealing with an antenna. Awww damn I guess just proved you didn't google for shiat. It wasn't real hard, both results were gleaned within the first 10 results of searching. "directv" + wifi "primestar" + wifi __________________ Unable to apply patch, Please install M$ Outlook to continue. A journey of a thousand posts begins with How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

02-09-2006	#13 (permalink)
Barry Managing the iTards. Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,262	You can use a hubcap as a wifi antenna?? __________________ Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

02-09-2006	#3 (permalink)
DagNasty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 78	http://cgi.ebay.com/Primestar-Dish-K...QQcmdZViewItem This is where I got my info. He states that it was for the KU band also, but he also states that it's for "Frequency range 950-2150 MHZ." Perhaps he's wrong. Big deal. While it may not be true for everyone, I use google extensively before attempting to ask any type of question. Why wait hours when I get an answer with google instantly? All of the search results at this forum returned extremely old posts. None of them had an accurate comparison. (by testing) I would do the math but I don't have either the primestar or directv dish on hand. I figured maybe as time went on there would more likely be people who have compared the two or at least heard of people who compared the two. Most of the search results turned up a post with the response telling them to use google or the search feature. Some of them deserved it, but none of them were asking about a comparison between the two. Also, not EVERY single person here who has tried it has posted their results (such as distance). Please don't be so quick to tell people to search. Sometimes the information is terribly old or completely nonexistant. It's very hard to have an active discussion here without someone jumping in and commanding a search.

02-09-2006	#14 (permalink)
Scruge Nyuk nyuk! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: TX Posts: 1,370	@ DagNasty The seller is more than likely referring to the RF and IF frequencies of the LNB. RF in verse IF out. I'm not sure why in your case that's important. I don't think you're going to be able to use a Ku band LNB for wifi. As for comparisons brands shouldn't matter. The size of the dish will dictate gain.

02-09-2006	#15 (permalink)
DagNasty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 78	Scruge: It's not the brand I was worrying about. From what I've learned the actual form of the dish has an adverse affect on the amount (if any) of gain. That's why I was asking. I assumed DirecTv ditched the primestar dishes because their form isn't made for the directv band. Let's say you have 1 dish and you feed it 2 different frequencies. Would the focal point be the same for the 2 dishes? dakkon2k: You've just adapted into being very presumptious, but I do not blame you, for I have seen at least 1 forum in my life. Why not just save yourself the time and not even post if it seems someone is looking to be spoonfed? Honestly, I was not.

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