lincomatic

the minipci cards are only for special slots in certain notebooks.
you just need to keep an eye out on ebay, pricewatch, tigerdirect, pricegrabber, etc. also techbargains.com gives a good heads up on deals. personally, i've bought orinoco silvers for $30 pp, and gold cards for < $40. most people don't know about the rebranded ones on ebay, so they often go for cheaper (although compaq ones tend to be more expensive! go figure).
some compatible cards: avaya, ibm high rate, dell truemobile 1150, elsa, enterasys roamabout, compaq WL110, to name a few. and don't forget wavelan...these are just older lucent-branded orinocos w/ a different sticker on them (but stay away from the 802.11 (w/o the "b") bronze cards .. they are only good for up to 2Mbps or something like that.
man...now that i think of it why am i giving up my secrets? maybe there'll be no more cheapies for me anymore. i guess i just can't keep my big fat mouth shut. if you're not comfortable with messing a little with drivers, though, and aren't running XP (the XP driver handles most of the rebrands transparently) , then stick w/ the wavelan/avaya/lucent(agere) branded ones.

btw, if you're balking on the $61 client card, then you're definitely going to balk at the high cost of antennas. better learn how to build one, 'cuz you're going to need it.

sbma45

Oh, I plan to build an antenna. I find the antenna stuff somewhat interesting personally, but I'm pretty sympathetic toward those who don't.

Your advice is certainly appreciated; the best I've found is around $50 shipped for a new silver, which I may end up going with. I'm running win2k, and plan on messing around with the wardriving.com linux boot disc, so keeping things as compatible as possible is probably for the best -- although I'm not at all averse to messing with drivers. Is that all that's required to get these rebranded cards working properly in 2k? Or are they fundamentally less compatible outside of XP? I didn't get a clear sense from your post.

I know that miniPCI is a whole different type of bus from PCMCIA, but I do in fact have a free miniPCI slot. My question is more about compatibility -- do they run off the same drivers? Is there an antenna port? I'm more keen to get a PCMCIA card, but it does seem like a lot of people buying Dell Laptops get rid of their miniPCI wireless cards for cheap on ebay.

While I'm asking questions: am I right in thinking the oft-mentioned pigtail is the connector that lets you hook standard antenna connections to the itsy-bitsy lucent connector on the card? Or is it an antenna unto itself?

lincomatic

the only diff with the rebrands i mentioned is the vid/pid keyed into the card. otherwise they are identical. same FCC ID, and if you don't like whatever f/w it comes with you can flash in new stuff in Windows after a little bit of binary editing. but most just come w/ some older f/w rev of lucent's which is not a bad thing if you plan to play w/ sniffers.

outside of XP all that's needed is to override the driver with the orinoco one if your vendor's driver causes problems. for some weird reason the INF in XP contains most of the compatible cards, but they left them out in the other INF's. anyway, most of the vendors just ship rebranded orinoco drivers, but the versions tend to be older than what orinoco offers (except avaya..they are just another lucent spinoff like agere, so they always have the latest. in fact, the avaya stuff is hacked to work w/ real orinoco's too because at first they were just rebranding w/o even changing the vid/pid).

yes, i noticed the minipci's are cheap on ebay. i don't have any experience with them, however, and the antenna connector is weird.

the "pigtail" is just a short wire w/ a plug to fit the jack on the PCMCIA card and an N jack on the other end to connect to an antenna. they suck as antennas if you try to use them by themselves..actually make you lose signal.

there's plenty of info around this board to answer your questions about this stuff. we should probably continue in one of the other more threads so more people can benefit from the info.

Novilio

(This thread is getting long, but I had to throw this in, directed to sbma45...)

There's nothing automatic about the disconnect, nor does it run only in that direction...I know a few guys who use computers only to run software that helps them design RF matching networks, heh. On the other hand, WiFi pulls together my two favorite spare-time things: computers and radio. With ham radio (and I have 31 years in grade there) falling into some sort of a black hole, it was a fine thing to find a computer pursuit that will allow me to build antennas and wavemeters and other gadgetry.

As for being old, well, you're just as old as you feel. When you don't get around to having your own kids (like me) you forget to notice that you're getting old. This may be a good thing. Not sure yet. However, it's sobering to realize that Thorn is a grandfather twice over, and I'm even older than he is.

Let us all keep in mind the utterly obscene pressures that today's highschoolers are under. I have two teenage nephews. They are being constantly harrassed about how they will never get into a decent college unless they are champs at two sports, play three musical instruments like concert musicians, be Eagle Scouts, and have a 4.0 GPA. They both work jobs to earn money for college, and they both sound kind of scared to me. I've tried to interest them in a number of technical pursuits, but they've got all they can handle. They both tell me they have no time for girlfriends, and neither expects ever to get married. (!!) I don't know what to make of them sometimes, but there are fersure a couple of guidance counselors I would like to work over with a rubber hose...

I admire the young, for the most part, given all the lies that older people with agendas feed them. And if we caution you against doing dumb things (like "liberating" other people's bandwidth) it may just be that some of us have done comparable dumb things in earlier times and still carry the scars.

Anyway. Good luck and sheesh, be careful!

--73--

--Novilio

mshimek

Just a hair older than Thorn, I have been a ham since 1967. Built all kinds of antennas, 2kw lowband and 2 meter strip line amps, 440 mhz repeater, etc.
My interest in stumbling is "just to see what's out there" and to gain information on securing 802.11b systems. I have my own system at home, which enables me to use my laptop around the house, and outside in my camper. I work for a county agency, and we will be using this technology in the future. I do not need to "steal bandwidth" because I have a cable modem at home, and DSL at work. It is good to see a group like this, that is interested in building and experimenting. Such groups seem to be getting extinct. You guys are the best!

sbma45

Point taken, Novilio -- I mistakenly conveyed the impression that there is always *always* a disconnect... I just meant to say there is not always an overlap.

And I do appreciate the sage warnings... the news of a wireless honeypot being set up in my hometown (DC) certainly makes one a little more apprehensive.

bret

I had to laugh at the folks that talk about their "close calls" with home-made explosives as a kid. I would like to point out that for every few close-calls, there are kids out there scoring "own-goals". As a retired E.O.D. tech, I can tell you from personal experience, that there are a great many kids who have managed to either, kill themselves, injure themselves (some great stories about this), or in the worse cases, injure or kill someone else. I prefer to see the first two cases because it pisses me off to no end to see someones ignorance hurt someone else. I saw some great slides of a 19 year old kid who decided to fill a plugged practice grenade with a mixture of smokeless powder and magnesium shavings which he was scraping off a survival fire starter. Mr. Know-it-all decided he would scrape magnesium directly into the neck of the grenade while it sat between his legs. At some point he must have forgotten which side to scrape the magnesium from because he managed to turn the fire starter over on the "flint" side. He is now a 20 something year old kid with no portion of his genitalia left intact. You know what? Good for him. At least he did not kill or injure anyone else. What really, really pisses me off is having to risk my life over some 16 year olds attempt to impress their friends that did not function like it "should have". But, that's the nature of the job.

sparafina

Consider us Darwin Award wannabes

No one is advocating being a dumbass, we just noticed a trend that some folks here have an inquisitive nature and a tendency to experiment at the fringes of safety.

Anyway we're off polluting the gene pool, unlike the unfortunate you mentioned.

systemd0wn

<rant>
haha. as one of these young wipersnapers, (18 years old) I can tell you its hard to be honest, to look at those people that are in their 40's and had the oprotunities to get into tech. when it was at its birth... So its hard to wonder if no matter how much you read will you ever get to know as much as them?

but i have been reading on computers since i was in 5th grade, got into "hacking" in jr. high, and no matter how much i read their was always someone better than me (wich will ALWAYS be the case), and you felt like you were not getting anywhere. So you turned to "scripts" or you turned to "main stream exploits". YES, they were dumb. But that was imediate gratification. And i still read, i just didnt do that nearly as much. It was dumb. And realizing this soon i picked back up the only smart thing to do. READ. and to be honest, it took a while, but i feel like in some small way i have progressed. and then sometimes you gota take a break and play some Q3 and kill someone.

</rant>

Is their something with the "hacker mindset" that click's with explosives?! i cant stop laughing @ work when i read these. I didnt ever have a lot of money but when i got enough to buy pre-made or otherwise chemicals i did the same with with a friend in the upstairs of my garage then we built a brick house to blow them all up in. (my poor trampoline has a hole in it still )

__________________
Systemd0wn
'311 Transistor, its a lightning resistor'

bret

Hehehe. I realize that bud. I am happy to see that inquisitive streak in my kids. My only problem with being inquisitive is when it endangers others. My kids know I can get upset when they do something stupid and hurt themselves. But they also know I can get really, seriously upset when their stupidity ends up hurting someone else. I hate to relate stories, but a few years back, we had an incident in the Washington D.C. area where some 17-19 year old "whiz kid" was making a pipe bomb with a batch of home-made explosives in his garage. The bomb went off and killed him and two of his friends instantly. What really sucks is that it also killed the young mans brother who had the misfortune of coming into the garage to ask them to be quite. (He was trying to sleep). The point here is that being inquisitive is not by itself a problem. It's when being inquisitive risks the lives of others. Ack. It seems like I have hijacked this thread a bit. Sorry folks. I tend to get a little target fixation when dealing with explosive discussions.

packetattack

I have to say, some of the stories here brought back some me memories.. making Hydrogen gas in a test tube.. lighting it and hearing the *bang*.. gee... if some is good, more MUST be better... I ended up pulling glass out of my hand from that stunt. Making homemade floating *bombs* in the pool.. At the fine age of 7, trying to light up a light bulb by wrapping two pieces of bare copper wire around the base and jamming it into the outlet... "What was that??? nuthing!!!!"

Amazing I'm still around after these 41 years... not for a lack of trying

I do have this urge to play with a home made rail gun I read about.. big banks of caps, high voltage, small pellets and exploding soda cans ... sounds like fun to me.

I gave up on mentoring a long time ago.. for many of the same reasons posted. The only one who gets *help* is my daughter. She was very impressed when her homemade rocket hit over 1500 feet( verified).

Wy

__________________
"Take advantage of the enemy's unreadiness, make your way by unexpected routes, and attack unguarded spots."
Sun Tzu

sparafina

A reasonably harmless and cheap thrill is dry ice and water in a 2 - liter soda bottle. No fire, but lots of noise and most of the plastic is shredded.

note:for informational and educational purposes only ... the info in most of these will certainly prove Darwin right

blackwave

Best place for getting books on this phun stuff...

http://www.loompanics.com/online-sto...ore/index.html

of course google always works to get the info in digital format (jolly roger, anarchist cookbook, poor man's james bond, etc...) ;)

note:for informational and educational purposes only ... the info in most of these will certainly prove Darwin right :)

__________________
-=BW=-

megaman007

Hey sbma45 why go to all the trouble legal and otherwise to steal bandwidth from the college? Why not have your gf get an account there for you?

sbma45

It's not a college, it's a large high school. So they will probably not be quite as free-wheeling about doling out accounts as the average US university. Their network is more about allowing machines owned by the school on rather than a shifting set of student-owned machines.