panel verse yagi

pledgeks · 03-14-2003

I know there is no all around best solution for all purposes. but if you had a choice of buying a panel or a yagi, what would you choose? Everyone seems to want to use yagi's to pull in the distant connections, but from what some sites say, it seems like the panels might do the job better (at the same dBi rating). I was thinking the panel might be easier to store/conceal in a backpack too.

jeffrowe · 03-18-2003

Well, Truely for wardriving, I think an Omni Is the best... I use the Fab-corp 5dbi omni and I get about a 5 block signal radius with lineof site... which equates in actual terms to more like 2 suburban blocks...

Yagi's would be good if you aim them out the side window and drive up and down streets... you would get a good distance past the sides of the road and into the sideroads... but you also would likely miss any Ap's over 10ft off the ground (just a limited guess here... depends on your antenna and its placement) and also you might miss some ap's that are not directly line of site of the yagi...

PAtch/Panel are a better replacement for the yagi type wardriving... they are directional but have a wider path in height and width... its the distance that suffers in relation to using a yagi... this would be better than an omni, but again, its directional... so you have to drive both sides on the street when war driving...

In all, Yagi's are great for directional/long distance links... if you know where the AP is, or have a specific target... yagi is great...

Panel antenna's are good to serve up AP's singals, for wardriving they provide a good side view... for warwalking they would be rather useless...

over all, for generic wardriving, warwalking, etc... the Omni wins hands down... the others are specific use antenna's... they can be used and work great, but not for every situation...

pledgeks · 03-20-2003

my main use would be for getting onto public networks while in new york city (new york wireless), I have a vague idea of where the AP's are, but am far from sure. I wasn't sure if I would be better off putting a panel on the window sill, or a yagi. I guess on that line... does one work better than another behind glass? I have read on the board (after SEARCHING

don't want to get flamed for the question) that the panel might work better through glass. has anyone had actual experience with this? all the theory in the world means nothing if it doesn't work when I want it to. Thanks

Thorn · 03-20-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by pledgeks
my main use would be for getting onto public networks while in new york city (new york wireless), I have a vague idea of where the AP's are, but am far from sure. I wasn't sure if I would be better off putting a panel on the window sill, or a yagi. I guess on that line... does one work better than another behind glass? I have read on the board (after SEARCHING don't want to get flamed for the question) that the panel might work better through glass. has anyone had actual experience with this? all the theory in the world means nothing if it doesn't work when I want it to. Thanks

It's not so much that a panel "works better" behind the glass, but rather they tend to fit better. A panel can be stuck right on the glass with double-sided foam tape, and take up minimal room. A yagi is going to take up a couple of cubic feet of real estate.

As to what "works better," that's one of those null questions. It depends on what your design parameters are, and what you're trying to accomplish.

jeffrowe · 03-21-2003

I think people keep asking which antenna is best for various tasks... and I dont know if they are getting it or not...

the easiest way i could think to get it across is with this picture... in hind site, it doesnt do the yagi justice... The idea was to show that the directional nature of anenna's directly effect your stumbling habits... a Patch is great for wardriving, but it depends on the patch's radiation degree and its dbi gain for distance... I think the side orientation for these woudl be great if you are driving and redriving the paths from different directions.... you get much deeper into the sides of the path... same with yagi but you are much mor edirection and confinder with your signal... ie: not good for simple stumbling... better for specific ap targets...

Overall a decent dbi gain Omni on your roof provides for the best coverage for generic stubmling....

Note: the Yagi gets great distance to the side, but is highly directional in both planes... combine that with line of site rules and it makes its use for stumbling very limited...

pledgeks · 03-24-2003

thanks for the info. Jeffrowe, just wanted to clarify (if I didn't say it before) the question wasn't which one was better for driving, I wanted to use it to access public hotspots from an apartment building. I was thinking of trying to get on NY wirless (I think that's the name.. and no, I would not be stealing

)

jeffrowe · 03-25-2003

Well, assuming you are accessing public hotspots, I still say the Omni is the best way to go... its portable and makes things easy...

If you have line of site, and want to use the public hotspot from a permanent/semi permanent spot... get a small decent Directional like a YAGI or VAGI (cheap... and good!) and then direct it at what you want... if you want a portable directional antenna that is easy to setup and might allow you to reach those hotspots from a mobile setting... try the Super Cantenna... its only $20 and you can buy a mini tripod and pigtail for it too... its the kind of directional setup you could use in a city park withotu oo much issue...

Link to Super Cantenna > http://www.cantenna.com/

Links to Vagi > http://www.fab-corp.com -or-
http://www.pacwireless.com/html/vagi_series.html

pledgeks · 03-25-2003

I have the 5 dbi omni from wireless central, but my only isue with it is that I thought that most omnis need a big ground plane to work properly. Because of that, I figured a yagi or panel would work better from an apartment.

SpinningAssDeux · 03-26-2003

Hello all-

I highly recommend the Super Canntenna. It seems to have a decent 10-13db gain. This was a little test I did. Two APs have flat panels rated at 19db [MAC addys ending in B5 and 79] - the remaining AP goes thru 2 walls to the outside where I was at a pinic table in my condo courtyard. The 19db panel I also highly recommend. YDI.com has them on sale for only $49. I easily get 500m with obstructions.

Cheers,

Brendan

Here are some client manager data:

Manual log
,,Start time ,End time ,BSSID , Ch, Sl, Nl, Snr,AP Name
,,2003/03/26-00:16,2003/03/26-00:17,00062524A9B5, 7, -43, -93, 50,Unknown
,,2003/03/26-00:16,2003/03/26-00:17,00022D8D1179, 11, -46, -86, 40,NYARLATHOTEP
,,2003/03/26-00:16,2003/03/26-00:17,0006255813DF, 2, -67, -90, 23,Unknown
without cantenna 75 ft away thru one wall

Manual log
,,Start time ,End time ,BSSID , Ch, Sl, Nl, Snr,AP Name
,,2003/03/26-00:18,2003/03/26-00:19,00062524A9B5, 7, -32, -90, 58,Unknown
,,2003/03/26-00:18,2003/03/26-00:19,00022D8D1179, 11, -36, -88, 52,NYARLATHOTEP
,,2003/03/26-00:18,2003/03/26-00:19,0006255813DF, 2, -44, -93, 49,Unknown
with cantenna 75 ft away thru one wall

jeffrowe · 03-26-2003

Well, to stumble from an apt, yes... a yagi or panel would be perfect... if you are not stumbling and are trying to access a specifc target, even better!

However, an Omni is not well suited for stumbling from an apt... it might work fine, but you lose the distance, if you were providing access to an entire apt or even a couple floors of apts, and Omni would work ok...

for finding or accessing an AP from an APT, I would suggest a panel as they are directional but more forgiving in the precise aiming dept... a yagi or other highly directional antenna woudl require precision and alot of movement if used to stumble...

In all, unless you got the cash to burn or want to try your hand at building directional antennas yourself, I suggest buying a Super Cantenna from cantenna.com or the $40 VAGI from fabcorp...

as for an omni, if you plan to stumble by car or walking, the fabcorp Omni is great... and the groundplane is built in... and smaller than a CD...

pledgeks · 03-27-2003

again, thanks to all who have responded. just one more question (that I haven't found in the search area)
What is the difference between a patch antenna and a panel antenna.

Thorn · 03-27-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by pledgeks
again, thanks to all who have responded. just one more question (that I haven't found in the search area)
What is the difference between a patch antenna and a panel antenna.

About $50.

No difference really. They are constructed the same. Generally, the smaller ones are called patches, and the larger ones called panels, but there is no hard and fast rule as to where the line is drawn.

03-14-2003	#1 (permalink)
pledgeks Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 14	panel verse yagi I know there is no all around best solution for all purposes. but if you had a choice of buying a panel or a yagi, what would you choose? Everyone seems to want to use yagi's to pull in the distant connections, but from what some sites say, it seems like the panels might do the job better (at the same dBi rating). I was thinking the panel might be easier to store/conceal in a backpack too.

03-18-2003	#2 (permalink)
jeffrowe Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northern Suburbs, Chicago, IL Posts: 142	very distinct purposes... Well, Truely for wardriving, I think an Omni Is the best... I use the Fab-corp 5dbi omni and I get about a 5 block signal radius with lineof site... which equates in actual terms to more like 2 suburban blocks... Yagi's would be good if you aim them out the side window and drive up and down streets... you would get a good distance past the sides of the road and into the sideroads... but you also would likely miss any Ap's over 10ft off the ground (just a limited guess here... depends on your antenna and its placement) and also you might miss some ap's that are not directly line of site of the yagi... PAtch/Panel are a better replacement for the yagi type wardriving... they are directional but have a wider path in height and width... its the distance that suffers in relation to using a yagi... this would be better than an omni, but again, its directional... so you have to drive both sides on the street when war driving... In all, Yagi's are great for directional/long distance links... if you know where the AP is, or have a specific target... yagi is great... Panel antenna's are good to serve up AP's singals, for wardriving they provide a good side view... for warwalking they would be rather useless... over all, for generic wardriving, warwalking, etc... the Omni wins hands down... the others are specific use antenna's... they can be used and work great, but not for every situation... __________________ -Jeffrowe

03-25-2003	#7 (permalink)
jeffrowe Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northern Suburbs, Chicago, IL Posts: 142	for accessing public access hotspots? Well, assuming you are accessing public hotspots, I still say the Omni is the best way to go... its portable and makes things easy... If you have line of site, and want to use the public hotspot from a permanent/semi permanent spot... get a small decent Directional like a YAGI or VAGI (cheap... and good!) and then direct it at what you want... if you want a portable directional antenna that is easy to setup and might allow you to reach those hotspots from a mobile setting... try the Super Cantenna... its only $20 and you can buy a mini tripod and pigtail for it too... its the kind of directional setup you could use in a city park withotu oo much issue... Link to Super Cantenna > http://www.cantenna.com/ Links to Vagi > http://www.fab-corp.com -or- http://www.pacwireless.com/html/vagi_series.html __________________ -Jeffrowe

03-26-2003	#9 (permalink)
SpinningAssDeux Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairfax, Va Posts: 1	Cantenna and panels Hello all- I highly recommend the Super Canntenna. It seems to have a decent 10-13db gain. This was a little test I did. Two APs have flat panels rated at 19db [MAC addys ending in B5 and 79] - the remaining AP goes thru 2 walls to the outside where I was at a pinic table in my condo courtyard. The 19db panel I also highly recommend. YDI.com has them on sale for only $49. I easily get 500m with obstructions. Cheers, Brendan Here are some client manager data: Manual log ,,Start time ,End time ,BSSID , Ch, Sl, Nl, Snr,AP Name ,,2003/03/26-00:16,2003/03/26-00:17,00062524A9B5, 7, -43, -93, 50,Unknown ,,2003/03/26-00:16,2003/03/26-00:17,00022D8D1179, 11, -46, -86, 40,NYARLATHOTEP ,,2003/03/26-00:16,2003/03/26-00:17,0006255813DF, 2, -67, -90, 23,Unknown without cantenna 75 ft away thru one wall Manual log ,,Start time ,End time ,BSSID , Ch, Sl, Nl, Snr,AP Name ,,2003/03/26-00:18,2003/03/26-00:19,00062524A9B5, 7, -32, -90, 58,Unknown ,,2003/03/26-00:18,2003/03/26-00:19,00022D8D1179, 11, -36, -88, 52,NYARLATHOTEP ,,2003/03/26-00:18,2003/03/26-00:19,0006255813DF, 2, -44, -93, 49,Unknown with cantenna 75 ft away thru one wall

03-26-2003	#10 (permalink)
jeffrowe Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northern Suburbs, Chicago, IL Posts: 142	From an Apt? Well, to stumble from an apt, yes... a yagi or panel would be perfect... if you are not stumbling and are trying to access a specifc target, even better! However, an Omni is not well suited for stumbling from an apt... it might work fine, but you lose the distance, if you were providing access to an entire apt or even a couple floors of apts, and Omni would work ok... for finding or accessing an AP from an APT, I would suggest a panel as they are directional but more forgiving in the precise aiming dept... a yagi or other highly directional antenna woudl require precision and alot of movement if used to stumble... In all, unless you got the cash to burn or want to try your hand at building directional antennas yourself, I suggest buying a Super Cantenna from cantenna.com or the $40 VAGI from fabcorp... as for an omni, if you plan to stumble by car or walking, the fabcorp Omni is great... and the groundplane is built in... and smaller than a CD... __________________ -Jeffrowe

03-20-2003	#3 (permalink)
pledgeks Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 14	my main use would be for getting onto public networks while in new york city (new york wireless), I have a vague idea of where the AP's are, but am far from sure. I wasn't sure if I would be better off putting a panel on the window sill, or a yagi. I guess on that line... does one work better than another behind glass? I have read on the board (after SEARCHING don't want to get flamed for the question) that the panel might work better through glass. has anyone had actual experience with this? all the theory in the world means nothing if it doesn't work when I want it to. Thanks

03-24-2003	#6 (permalink)
pledgeks Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 14	thanks for the info. Jeffrowe, just wanted to clarify (if I didn't say it before) the question wasn't which one was better for driving, I wanted to use it to access public hotspots from an apartment building. I was thinking of trying to get on NY wirless (I think that's the name.. and no, I would not be stealing )

03-25-2003	#8 (permalink)
pledgeks Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 14	I have the 5 dbi omni from wireless central, but my only isue with it is that I thought that most omnis need a big ground plane to work properly. Because of that, I figured a yagi or panel would work better from an apartment.

03-27-2003	#11 (permalink)
pledgeks Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 14	patch verse panel again, thanks to all who have responded. just one more question (that I haven't found in the search area) What is the difference between a patch antenna and a panel antenna.

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