Point to point - kind of...?

b_konyn · 05-28-2004

Hi,

I need a bit of advice. I am working at a summer camp this summer and we want to get the internet to one of our buildings. The DSL comes in at the main office and I need to find a way to get it down to the multimedia center.

The problem is that it's quite far and there are lots of trees in the way. There are buildings down the road along the way though. Should I put a repeater in some of them to extend the signal (about 4 repeaters) or should I try to use a high gain directional antenna. Is there a site that give rough expected ranges of various antnenae?

The camp is in MI, not too far from Detroit. Does anyone know of any companies I can contact who would be able to quote for a professinal installation?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

Madhadder · 05-28-2004

The Prob. Is going to be the trees. No matter how high a gain/Antt. you
use they will act like a huge lead wall to Wi-Fi Signals. How far is it from
the Main Bldg. to the Other Bldg? (Measure as if you were driving there on
the road)

Repeaters are not really an option afer the first one. It MIGHT work but
by the time the signal got to the MM Bldg. it would be totally useless.

Your only option maybe to trench in some fiber (If distance is over 300ft)
You can usually get it off ebay cheaper than getting it new.

Thorn · 05-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_konyn

Hi,

I need a bit of advice. I am working at a summer camp this summer and we want to get the internet to one of our buildings. The DSL comes in at the main office and I need to find a way to get it down to the multimedia center.

The problem is that it's quite far and there are lots of trees in the way. There are buildings down the road along the way though. Should I put a repeater in some of them to extend the signal (about 4 repeaters) or should I try to use a high gain directional antenna. Is there a site that give rough expected ranges of various antnenae?

The camp is in MI, not too far from Detroit. Does anyone know of any companies I can contact who would be able to quote for a professinal installation?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

What's the distance? ("Quite far" doesn't help much.)

What is a "lot of trees" and what type? (e.g. I live in New England. My cousins from the Great Plains think I have "a lot" of trees (2) in my yard. In contrast, I don't think of "a lot" until you hit several hundred acres of forest.)

In any event, trees in the signal path are the issue. You may get through two or three deciduous trees, but pines are a killer. (Trust me on this.)

If you can't obtain a clear signal path through the trees, you need to either go cut down trees, above the trees via masts/towers, or go to a frequency that will penetrate foliage. (~900MHz)

Just curious, but how did you come up with "4" for the number of repeaters?

As MadHadder says, cabling is an option. If the distance is less than 300 ft., and you don't want to cut trees or go over them, then bury some Cat5. If it's over 300 ft., then go fiber.

b_konyn · 05-28-2004

Thanks so much for replying so fast.

The distance is about 500-600m as the crow flies. There's a map here https://www.bris.ac.uk/fluff/u/bk034...M77nG2AB3LQ8h/

I want to get from the office to multimedia. The repeaters I thought would maintain line of sight by going from the office to the gym to the clinic then to fishman. Then either direct to multimedia or via arts and crafts. Is there no way I can repeat that many times?

Unfortunately when I say a lot of trees it is quite a large amount. There's one dense foresty patch and then some sparsely placed once along the road. The only way I can think of getting line of sight is to put an antenna at the top of the climbing tower. If I use a Yagi antenna then presumably I need one at both ends and the positioning needs to be quite precise? Do you know of any websites / books that have guides to setting up such a link?

Thanks again,

Ben

wrzwaldo · 05-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_konyn

...
Do you know of any websites / books that have guides to setting up such a link?

Thanks again,

Ben

Here

Madhadder · 05-28-2004

Looking at the MAp you posted, and the other info. in your 2nd post.
The only way to do this (And get a good/Reliable connection) is to trench
in some fiber for the over 300ft runs and Cat5e for anything less.

Make it a summercamp project, get the kids to help dig the trenchs/run cable
all the while Educating them in the art of networking..

Not to mention the "free labor" factor

But won't they don't know won't hurt them.

Thorn · 05-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_konyn

Is there no way I can repeat that many times?

Not really. It introduces so many hops that it effectively kills the usefulness of the connections. You might be able to use a mesh system. Google for "MeshAP". Then however, you're tackling quite a project.

MadHadder is correct. It sure looks like trench and fiber is the way to go.

By the way, audit is in Michigan north of Detroit. You could send him a Private Message asking him about a site survey and professional installation.

05-28-2004	#1 (permalink)
b_konyn Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2	Point to point - kind of...? Hi, I need a bit of advice. I am working at a summer camp this summer and we want to get the internet to one of our buildings. The DSL comes in at the main office and I need to find a way to get it down to the multimedia center. The problem is that it's quite far and there are lots of trees in the way. There are buildings down the road along the way though. Should I put a repeater in some of them to extend the signal (about 4 repeaters) or should I try to use a high gain directional antenna. Is there a site that give rough expected ranges of various antnenae? The camp is in MI, not too far from Detroit. Does anyone know of any companies I can contact who would be able to quote for a professinal installation? Thanks for any advice you can give!

05-28-2004	#2 (permalink)
Madhadder General "Noob Basher" Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,620	The Prob. Is going to be the trees. No matter how high a gain/Antt. you use they will act like a huge lead wall to Wi-Fi Signals. How far is it from the Main Bldg. to the Other Bldg? (Measure as if you were driving there on the road) Repeaters are not really an option afer the first one. It MIGHT work but by the time the signal got to the MM Bldg. it would be totally useless. Your only option maybe to trench in some fiber (If distance is over 300ft) You can usually get it off ebay cheaper than getting it new. __________________ Legends may sleep, but they never die!!!!

05-28-2004	#4 (permalink)
b_konyn Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2	Thanks - some distances... Thanks so much for replying so fast. The distance is about 500-600m as the crow flies. There's a map here https://www.bris.ac.uk/fluff/u/bk034...M77nG2AB3LQ8h/ I want to get from the office to multimedia. The repeaters I thought would maintain line of sight by going from the office to the gym to the clinic then to fishman. Then either direct to multimedia or via arts and crafts. Is there no way I can repeat that many times? Unfortunately when I say a lot of trees it is quite a large amount. There's one dense foresty patch and then some sparsely placed once along the road. The only way I can think of getting line of sight is to put an antenna at the top of the climbing tower. If I use a Yagi antenna then presumably I need one at both ends and the positioning needs to be quite precise? Do you know of any websites / books that have guides to setting up such a link? Thanks again, Ben

05-28-2004	#6 (permalink)
Madhadder General "Noob Basher" Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,620	Looking at the MAp you posted, and the other info. in your 2nd post. The only way to do this (And get a good/Reliable connection) is to trench in some fiber for the over 300ft runs and Cat5e for anything less. Make it a summercamp project, get the kids to help dig the trenchs/run cable all the while Educating them in the art of networking.. Not to mention the "free labor" factor But won't they don't know won't hurt them. __________________ Legends may sleep, but they never die!!!!

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