Proxim ORiNOCO 11 a/b/g Gold Combo PC Card 8480-WD

Rhaize · 05-19-2003

Will Netstumbler work with this card? I'd like to pick one up for testing purposes. need to make sure I don't have to expense it 2ce..

mvario · 05-19-2003

Not in native mode. It has an Atheros chipset, not Hermes. If you are running it on an XP system it will work in NDIS mode.

Rhaize · 05-20-2003

Where can I learn more about the different chipsets and architectures?

mvario · 05-20-2003

You could search here, or the web in general. Check out 802.11 Planet, NWFusion, PCMagazine. I don't know of any ONE source, but if you read product reviews they often mention chipsets. Do searches on Hermes, Prism, Intersil, and Atheros to start.

Then when you're done you could post a little comparison/faq here

o0shozbots0o · 05-25-2003

Does anyone know if this card has the regular external connector for the antenna ?

It doesn't mention on the website ....

http://www.proxim.com/products/all/o...gcombocard.pdf

The Others · 05-25-2003

I don't know.

I'd bet that it doesn't though.

A quick search will tell you why.

mwrobin · 06-04-2003

It does not have an external antenna connector.

infosec_buda · 06-04-2003

I found out the hard way that it DOES NOT have the external connector. Proxim told me it did, I ordered it, it showed up yesterday, and didn't. It's going back for a Proxim b/g card that does have the connector.

mvario · 06-04-2003

general rule of thumb...

any 802.11a cards which use the UNII 1 band (they all do) can't, by FCC regualtion, has to have an integrated antenna (can't have a jack to add one).

infosec_buda · 06-05-2003

That's a great tidbit of info... So if this is true, then why on earth do folks sell antennas to use with .11A? Something doesn't compute...

Thorn · 06-05-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by infosec_buda
That's a great tidbit of info... So if this is true, then why on earth do folks sell antennas to use with .11A? Something doesn't compute...

Some "a" is legal to use with an antenna. (UNII 2. I think- mvario correct me if I'm wrong.) It's mainly used for wireless backbone links or the like.

Most PC/PCMCIA cards are the UNII 1 version of 802.11a which is low-power, indoor-use only. No antenna can be legally connected to those, because of the FCC power limitations. Hence, no antenna connection.

infosec_buda · 06-05-2003

Now that makes sense... thanks for the extra info!

mvario · 06-05-2003

Right...

802.11a can be broken up in to 3 frequency ranges know as the UNII1, UNII2, and UNII3 bands. Each has 4 non-overlapping channels

The UNII1 band was designated for indoor use and limited to 50mw by the FCC (40mw by IEEE) and mandates non-removable antennas.

The UNII2 band was designated for indoor and outdoor use and limited to 250mw by the FCC (200mw by IEEE) and can have replaceable antennas.

The UNII3 band was designated for outdoor use and limited to 1000mw by the FCC (800mw by the IEEE) and can have replaceable antennas.

All equipment that is being sold today that I am aware of, for indoor WLAN use utilizes both UNII1 and UNII2 (to maximize available channels). So while it gives users 8 non-overlapping channels it limits the equipment to 50mw and integrated antennas.

On the other hand there is nothing stopping anyone from making a UNII2-only card that has 250mw output and antenna jacks, it's just that as far as I know no one is doing it yet.

Just to make things more complicated, the UNII3 band overlaps the 5.8ghz ISM band, which is governed by different FCC rules. The ISM band I believe is limited to 1000mw and mandates spread spectrum (UNII doesn't). I don't know of any indoor stuff that operates under the 5.8ghz ISM rules. There is some wide area point-to-point stuff that does.

Now the available sections of the 5.8ghz band is different for Europe, and there is some talk of opening up more of the spectrum in the US. But, the European rules specify that the equipment has to automatically back off a frequency that it detects is being used - there's a lot of concern because some of this frequency range is used for military radar - so now these concerns are being voiced in the US in regard to opening more of the spectrum. What will happen is anyone's guess.

I still like 802.11a a lot. OFDM is fast, and 8 non-overlapping channels is great if you need to put a lot of access points in an area, and it's just a lot less crowded that 2.4ghz.

I'll shut up now

but if you want to read more:

http://wireless.oldcolo.com/biology/...d%20of%205.htm

http://www.cisco.com/global/ca/prese...o_wireless.pdf

and did I mention 802.16?

infosec_buda · 06-05-2003

Wowzers that was some good reading... So with this greater knowledge I still can't get my cordless phone to play nicely with my WLAN.

mvario · 06-06-2003

Yeah, that's what I meant about 2.4ghz being CROWDED. You have WLAN stuff, which has only 4 channels in the US that won't interfere with each other, Bluetooth, you have microwave ovens, Fusion Lighting (www.strohpub.com/focus.htm), X-10 type video senders, satellite radio, and lots of telephones.

You could experiment and look for a combination of channels for your WLAN gear and your phone, but if your phone autoscans for a channel you may be out of luck (WLAN DSSS will just look like low level background noise to the phone).

You may just have to get 802.11a gear, or a 900mhz (or 5ghz) telephone

05-19-2003	#1 (permalink)
Rhaize Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2	Proxim ORiNOCO 11 a/b/g Gold Combo PC Card 8480-WD Will Netstumbler work with this card? I'd like to pick one up for testing purposes. need to make sure I don't have to expense it 2ce..

05-20-2003	#3 (permalink)
Rhaize Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2	Thanks Where can I learn more about the different chipsets and architectures?

05-25-2003	#5 (permalink)
o0shozbots0o Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 8	antenna connector ??? Does anyone know if this card has the regular external connector for the antenna ? It doesn't mention on the website .... http://www.proxim.com/products/all/o...gcombocard.pdf

05-25-2003	#6 (permalink)
The Others PeaceDriver Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Dos Palabras, Mandoras Posts: 2,920	I don't know. I'd bet that it doesn't though. A quick search will tell you why. __________________ all good ends all ?u=273

06-04-2003	#7 (permalink)
mwrobin Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1	Proxim 8480-US It does not have an external antenna connector.

05-19-2003	#2 (permalink)
mvario I stumble, therefore I am Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 137	Not in native mode. It has an Atheros chipset, not Hermes. If you are running it on an XP system it will work in NDIS mode.

05-20-2003	#4 (permalink)
mvario I stumble, therefore I am Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 137	You could search here, or the web in general. Check out 802.11 Planet, NWFusion, PCMagazine. I don't know of any ONE source, but if you read product reviews they often mention chipsets. Do searches on Hermes, Prism, Intersil, and Atheros to start. Then when you're done you could post a little comparison/faq here

06-04-2003	#8 (permalink)
infosec_buda zen stumbler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 53	I found out the hard way that it DOES NOT have the external connector. Proxim told me it did, I ordered it, it showed up yesterday, and didn't. It's going back for a Proxim b/g card that does have the connector.

06-04-2003	#9 (permalink)
mvario I stumble, therefore I am Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 137	general rule of thumb... any 802.11a cards which use the UNII 1 band (they all do) can't, by FCC regualtion, has to have an integrated antenna (can't have a jack to add one).

06-05-2003	#10 (permalink)
infosec_buda zen stumbler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 53	That's a great tidbit of info... So if this is true, then why on earth do folks sell antennas to use with .11A? Something doesn't compute...

06-05-2003	#12 (permalink)
infosec_buda zen stumbler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 53	Now that makes sense... thanks for the extra info!

06-05-2003	#13 (permalink)
mvario I stumble, therefore I am Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 137	Right... 802.11a can be broken up in to 3 frequency ranges know as the UNII1, UNII2, and UNII3 bands. Each has 4 non-overlapping channels The UNII1 band was designated for indoor use and limited to 50mw by the FCC (40mw by IEEE) and mandates non-removable antennas. The UNII2 band was designated for indoor and outdoor use and limited to 250mw by the FCC (200mw by IEEE) and can have replaceable antennas. The UNII3 band was designated for outdoor use and limited to 1000mw by the FCC (800mw by the IEEE) and can have replaceable antennas. All equipment that is being sold today that I am aware of, for indoor WLAN use utilizes both UNII1 and UNII2 (to maximize available channels). So while it gives users 8 non-overlapping channels it limits the equipment to 50mw and integrated antennas. On the other hand there is nothing stopping anyone from making a UNII2-only card that has 250mw output and antenna jacks, it's just that as far as I know no one is doing it yet. Just to make things more complicated, the UNII3 band overlaps the 5.8ghz ISM band, which is governed by different FCC rules. The ISM band I believe is limited to 1000mw and mandates spread spectrum (UNII doesn't). I don't know of any indoor stuff that operates under the 5.8ghz ISM rules. There is some wide area point-to-point stuff that does. Now the available sections of the 5.8ghz band is different for Europe, and there is some talk of opening up more of the spectrum in the US. But, the European rules specify that the equipment has to automatically back off a frequency that it detects is being used - there's a lot of concern because some of this frequency range is used for military radar - so now these concerns are being voiced in the US in regard to opening more of the spectrum. What will happen is anyone's guess. I still like 802.11a a lot. OFDM is fast, and 8 non-overlapping channels is great if you need to put a lot of access points in an area, and it's just a lot less crowded that 2.4ghz. I'll shut up now but if you want to read more: http://wireless.oldcolo.com/biology/...d%20of%205.htm http://www.cisco.com/global/ca/prese...o_wireless.pdf and did I mention 802.16? Last edited by mvario : 06-16-2003 at 07:18 PM.

06-05-2003	#14 (permalink)
infosec_buda zen stumbler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 53	Wowzers that was some good reading... So with this greater knowledge I still can't get my cordless phone to play nicely with my WLAN.

06-06-2003	#15 (permalink)
mvario I stumble, therefore I am Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 137	Yeah, that's what I meant about 2.4ghz being CROWDED. You have WLAN stuff, which has only 4 channels in the US that won't interfere with each other, Bluetooth, you have microwave ovens, Fusion Lighting (www.strohpub.com/focus.htm), X-10 type video senders, satellite radio, and lots of telephones. You could experiment and look for a combination of channels for your WLAN gear and your phone, but if your phone autoscans for a channel you may be out of luck (WLAN DSSS will just look like low level background noise to the phone). You may just have to get 802.11a gear, or a 900mhz (or 5ghz) telephone Last edited by mvario : 06-06-2003 at 03:51 AM.

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