Urgent! Need PCMCIA Specs, Out of Time

TwilightShadow · 12-18-2004

The Story So Far: Ok, here's the deal. My friend and I are designing some antennas that we're eventually going to hook up to a router. The router will most likely be a linksys wrt54g, which takes an SMA antenna connector, unless I'm very, very much mistaken.

The problem: for proper design/implementation of this project, we must use our laptops (yes, our wardriving laptops) to test the directional antennas. Both of us have pcmcia cards with the ORINOCO connectors. But check it out: if we design our antennas for our ORINOCOs, we'll need to convert to SMA later. Which means that our data won't be as accurate, and possibly signal strength will be lost.

The solution: We need to find a PCMCIA wifi card, preferrably 54g/2.4ghz, that supports an external SMA antenna. Either that, or a fairly inexpensive and low-signal-loss ORNIOCO-SMA conversion cable. I don't know if any of these actually exist (especially the "low-signal-loss" part), but if they do, PLEASE tell us where we can find them! And if they don't, any suggestions would be great too! We've checked the linsys models, the SMC models, and even the impossibly overpriced cisco models. No dice.

The Catch: My friend has a $200, do-not-open-until-xmas budget, and this project is to draw from that money. However, because this is provided by his employer, the orders must be placed by MONDAY, DECEMBER 20. We've searched high and low for this hardware, and now we're out of time. Help us, NS-forum users, you're our only hope!

Thanks!!

wrzwaldo · 12-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwilightShadow

The Story So Far: Ok, here's the deal. My friend and I are designing some antennas that we're eventually going to hook up to a router. The router will most likely be a linksys wrt54g, which takes an SMA antenna connector, unless I'm very, very much mistaken.

The problem: for proper design/implementation of this project, we must use our laptops (yes, our wardriving laptops) to test the directional antennas. Both of us have pcmcia cards with the ORINOCO connectors. But check it out: if we design our antennas for our ORINOCOs, we'll need to convert to SMA later. Which means that our data won't be as accurate, and possibly signal strength will be lost.

The solution: We need to find a PCMCIA wifi card, preferrably 54g/2.4ghz, that supports an external SMA antenna. Either that, or a fairly inexpensive and low-signal-loss ORNIOCO-SMA conversion cable. I don't know if any of these actually exist (especially the "low-signal-loss" part), but if they do, PLEASE tell us where we can find them! And if they don't, any suggestions would be great too! We've checked the linsys models, the SMC models, and even the impossibly overpriced cisco models. No dice.

The Catch: My friend has a $200, do-not-open-until-xmas budget, and this project is to draw from that money. However, because this is provided by his employer, the orders must be placed by MONDAY, DECEMBER 20. We've searched high and low for this hardware, and now we're out of time. Help us, NS-forum users, you're our only hope!

Thanks!!

I think you are! Searched high and low? Not very good at it are you? Try Fab-Corp. And look at those connectors again! When in doubt, GOOGLE.

kidflame · 12-18-2004

well, thats good info, but as far as i know, that doesnt really answer our questions regarding a pcmcia card that has a suitable external ant. connector...

since you appear to know more about this subject than we do, perhaps you could direct us to a suitable card for this project?

We've searched high and low for a pcmcia card with an sma antenna connector. Are you suggesting we search for a pcmcia card with an RP-TNC connector? (oh, btw. If you suggest a reference to google, it is advisable that its link actually goes to google.) I am not familliar with cards carrying RP-TNC connectors, and we would like to avoid soldering as much as possible.

Again, your quick rebuttle was indeed efficient, but you neglected to tell us much that was very useful to our project. Is there any way we could get a reccomendation? Are Orinoco-RPTNC adapters with low signal loss readily available? Or do we convert RPTNC to TNC and go from there? More information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Thorn · 12-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidflame

well, thats good info, but as far as i know, that doesnt really answer our questions regarding a pcmcia card that has a suitable external ant. connector...

since you appear to know more about this subject than we do, perhaps you could direct us to a suitable card for this project?

We've searched high and low for a pcmcia card with an sma antenna connector. Are you suggesting we search for a pcmcia card with an RP-TNC connector? (oh, btw. If you suggest a reference to google, it is advisable that its link actually goes to google.) I am not familliar with cards carrying RP-TNC connectors, and we would like to avoid soldering as much as possible.

Again, your quick rebuttle was indeed efficient, but you neglected to tell us much that was very useful to our project. Is there any way we could get a reccomendation? Are Orinoco-RPTNC adapters with low signal loss readily available? Or do we convert RPTNC to TNC and go from there? More information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

<Spoonfeed mode ON>
There are any number of PCMCIA cards with external connectors. None come with SMA connectors. At least one that I own (Teletronics) comes with RP-SMA, and one vender is retrofitting an RP-SMA onto the ORiNOCO card and selling them on eBay. (Toxic Ranch, I believe.)

However, since you say that you want to place the final antenna on a WRT54G, a card with an SMA or RP-SMA is useless. The WRT54G comes with RP-TNC connectors. So it would appear that this is what you really want (and that TwilightShadow is "very, very much mistaken.")

The simple, common and standard solution is to use a common connector such as a Type N on the antenna and cable and simply use two pigtails. The first being a MC to N for the ORiNOCO card and the second being an RP-TNC to N for the WRT54G.

And yes, low-loss pigtails can be had by keeping them short.
<Spoonfeed mode OFF>

Part of the annoyance factor on this type of question is that you guys aren't regular contributors, yet you seem to think we should supply you with all the information for your project just because you are under a deadline. There's an old saying "Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."

Maybe that isn't your intent, but that's how it comes across.

wrzwaldo did supply you four key pieces of information:
1) The highlighted portion is a BIG clue. (ie: Wrong connectors cited.)
2) Pictures showing you the two different connectors.
3) Look at FAB-Corp for purchasing the needed connectors and cables.
4) Use Google to seach for more information regarding what connectors are used. (Although I don't know what was up with the link...) All of the information is easily found via Google.

I have to ask; Do you guys have any experience with antennae? You're asking some very basic questions for people who are "designing" them.

wrzwaldo · 12-18-2004

That link I provided "GOOGLE" contained the following question in the first post...

"What is the antenna connector called on the WRT54G (and GS)?"

The answer was in the next post.

Monitr7 · 12-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorn

<Spoonfeed mode ON>
There are any number of PCMCIA cards ...

You're asking some very basic questions for people who are "designing" them.

As usual, Thorn made my head hurt. He uses all that there fancy talk.

Oh and BTW, also try antennasystems.com.

TwilightShadow · 12-18-2004

*nods* understood. We didnt really "expect" to be provided with answers, but I can see what you're saying, Thorn. As for your question, we have experience in that we've read a pretty good amount, but we haven't been able to build because of budget problems. Thats why we're so excited about this new development... but what you say makes sense. We'll do our best to contribute more in the future.

Jeez, i could have sworn that the wrt54g used SMA... *shakes head* i must have gotten confused somewhere along the line. Well, at least i know now, lol...

this "designing" could be better described as experimentation with the technology, now that we have the funds to do so. That's why the data is so important... The two-pigtail system is not something that we wanted to go with, because we were afraid that it might mess up SNR readings when we switch them. We're trying a couple of different antennae to see what kind of results we can get, so if we switch the pigtails it might give a different output strength than expected. That's why we wanted a pcmcia card with an SMA connector, so we could use sma on both the card and the router.

Based on wrzwaldo's info, that means we would be looking for a pcmcia card with rp-tnc... but that appears to be irrelevant; not simple, not common, not standard. Hmm. Looks like we'll have to go dual-pigtail after all... oh well. Based on your reactions, it probably doesn't really matter. Its just the way we're used to doing things, you know? Single variable, keep everything else the same. haha i guess one could say its what we've been trained to do.

Yes, we're fully aware that shorter pigtails mean less noise. We're just trying to find the most effective way to do this testing, with a minimal amount of variables.

Thanks a lot for the info, it'll make our project go a heck of a lot smoother. Again, our intent wasn't to demand information on short notice, but to request as much of it as we could, because we were getting nowhere... my stupidity with the wrt54g connectors was the key contributor of that, so clearing that up did wonders.

Our apologies for the offense. It's not the way we intended to sound, nor will it happen again.

Thorn · 12-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwilightShadow

*nods* understood. We didnt really "expect" to be provided with answers, but I can see what you're saying, Thorn. As for your question, we have experience in that we've read a pretty good amount, but we haven't been able to build because of budget problems. Thats why we're so excited about this new development... but what you say makes sense. We'll do our best to contribute more in the future.

Jeez, i could have sworn that the wrt54g used SMA... *shakes head* i must have gotten confused somewhere along the line. Well, at least i know now, lol...

this "designing" could be better described as experimentation with the technology, now that we have the funds to do so. That's why the data is so important... The two-pigtail system is not something that we wanted to go with, because we were afraid that it might mess up SNR readings when we switch them. We're trying a couple of different antennae to see what kind of results we can get, so if we switch the pigtails it might give a different output strength than expected. That's why we wanted a pcmcia card with an SMA connector, so we could use sma on both the card and the router.

Based on wrzwaldo's info, that means we would be looking for a pcmcia card with rp-tnc... but that appears to be irrelevant; not simple, not common, not standard. Hmm. Looks like we'll have to go dual-pigtail after all... oh well. Based on your reactions, it probably doesn't really matter. Its just the way we're used to doing things, you know? Single variable, keep everything else the same. haha i guess one could say its what we've been trained to do.

Yes, we're fully aware that shorter pigtails mean less noise. We're just trying to find the most effective way to do this testing, with a minimal amount of variables.

Thanks a lot for the info, it'll make our project go a heck of a lot smoother. Again, our intent wasn't to demand information on short notice, but to request as much of it as we could, because we were getting nowhere... my stupidity with the wrt54g connectors was the key contributor of that, so clearing that up did wonders.

Our apologies for the offense. It's not the way we intended to sound, nor will it happen again.

Keeping the single pigtail makes sense as is means one less variable. However, if you guys get two pigtails of the same coax type (eg LMR-100A) , that are of the same length (+/- one inch) there should be little variation in the SNR. At least none that you'll notice without some very sophisticated equipment. You'll have more variation due to the internal differences between the WRT54G and an ORiNOCO card. (You do know that there is usually more cable inside a router, don't you? There's typically none in a card.)

12-18-2004	#1 (permalink)
TwilightShadow Eating Lots of Pringles Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5	Urgent! Need PCMCIA Specs, Out of Time The Story So Far: Ok, here's the deal. My friend and I are designing some antennas that we're eventually going to hook up to a router. The router will most likely be a linksys wrt54g, which takes an SMA antenna connector, unless I'm very, very much mistaken. The problem: for proper design/implementation of this project, we must use our laptops (yes, our wardriving laptops) to test the directional antennas. Both of us have pcmcia cards with the ORINOCO connectors. But check it out: if we design our antennas for our ORINOCOs, we'll need to convert to SMA later. Which means that our data won't be as accurate, and possibly signal strength will be lost. The solution: We need to find a PCMCIA wifi card, preferrably 54g/2.4ghz, that supports an external SMA antenna. Either that, or a fairly inexpensive and low-signal-loss ORNIOCO-SMA conversion cable. I don't know if any of these actually exist (especially the "low-signal-loss" part), but if they do, PLEASE tell us where we can find them! And if they don't, any suggestions would be great too! We've checked the linsys models, the SMC models, and even the impossibly overpriced cisco models. No dice. The Catch: My friend has a $200, do-not-open-until-xmas budget, and this project is to draw from that money. However, because this is provided by his employer, the orders must be placed by MONDAY, DECEMBER 20. We've searched high and low for this hardware, and now we're out of time. Help us, NS-forum users, you're our only hope! Thanks!! __________________ "...Death must Die, Life must be Born, the Illusion of Twilight must melt to 'Morn." -Anonymous

12-18-2004	#5 (permalink)
wrzwaldo I amuse you? Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 9,147	That link I provided "GOOGLE" contained the following question in the first post... "What is the antenna connector called on the WRT54G (and GS)?" The answer was in the next post. Last edited by wrzwaldo : 12-18-2004 at 02:58 PM.

12-18-2004	#7 (permalink)
TwilightShadow Eating Lots of Pringles Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5	Thanks, and Understood nods understood. We didnt really "expect" to be provided with answers, but I can see what you're saying, Thorn. As for your question, we have experience in that we've read a pretty good amount, but we haven't been able to build because of budget problems. Thats why we're so excited about this new development... but what you say makes sense. We'll do our best to contribute more in the future. Jeez, i could have sworn that the wrt54g used SMA... shakes head i must have gotten confused somewhere along the line. Well, at least i know now, lol... this "designing" could be better described as experimentation with the technology, now that we have the funds to do so. That's why the data is so important... The two-pigtail system is not something that we wanted to go with, because we were afraid that it might mess up SNR readings when we switch them. We're trying a couple of different antennae to see what kind of results we can get, so if we switch the pigtails it might give a different output strength than expected. That's why we wanted a pcmcia card with an SMA connector, so we could use sma on both the card and the router. Based on wrzwaldo's info, that means we would be looking for a pcmcia card with rp-tnc... but that appears to be irrelevant; not simple, not common, not standard. Hmm. Looks like we'll have to go dual-pigtail after all... oh well. Based on your reactions, it probably doesn't really matter. Its just the way we're used to doing things, you know? Single variable, keep everything else the same. haha i guess one could say its what we've been trained to do. Yes, we're fully aware that shorter pigtails mean less noise. We're just trying to find the most effective way to do this testing, with a minimal amount of variables. Thanks a lot for the info, it'll make our project go a heck of a lot smoother. Again, our intent wasn't to demand information on short notice, but to request as much of it as we could, because we were getting nowhere... my stupidity with the wrt54g connectors was the key contributor of that, so clearing that up did wonders. Our apologies for the offense. It's not the way we intended to sound, nor will it happen again. __________________ "...Death must Die, Life must be Born, the Illusion of Twilight must melt to 'Morn." -Anonymous

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12-18-2004	#3 (permalink)
kidflame Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2	well, thats good info, but as far as i know, that doesnt really answer our questions regarding a pcmcia card that has a suitable external ant. connector... since you appear to know more about this subject than we do, perhaps you could direct us to a suitable card for this project? We've searched high and low for a pcmcia card with an sma antenna connector. Are you suggesting we search for a pcmcia card with an RP-TNC connector? (oh, btw. If you suggest a reference to google, it is advisable that its link actually goes to google.) I am not familliar with cards carrying RP-TNC connectors, and we would like to avoid soldering as much as possible. Again, your quick rebuttle was indeed efficient, but you neglected to tell us much that was very useful to our project. Is there any way we could get a reccomendation? Are Orinoco-RPTNC adapters with low signal loss readily available? Or do we convert RPTNC to TNC and go from there? More information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!