wifi setup help!

renode · 09-29-2003

i work in a business that physically hosts the hardware for a local satellite ISP, and as a bonus
my workplace gets free t1 access. recently an apartment became available for rent across the
street from my workplace, which is on the 3rd floor, and approximately 75 ft. from the
room which contains the equipment. this distance is purely horizontal; not counting
the distance up 2 levels to the apartment. Id say a distance total of maybe 120 ft at most....

the room that hosts the equipment is a small room nearly in the center of the building
on the ground floor, and there are approx. 4 walls that block line-of-sight to the window of the
aforementioned apartment.

my question is, could an off the shelf wireless system be adequate to leech off this connection?
i had hopes that in using a good wireless router + booster in the equipment room and another
access point in the closest window of the apt. that perhaps i could get a signal strong enough
to go with that and ditch paying for the phone + dsl considering my cell does a good enough job
alone. legality is not an issue here as i am the tech for the business which hosts the equipment,
and i alone deal with their equipment should it go down considering they never want to send
anyone out to fix anything, and ive been given permission from my supervisor providing i use
the bandwidth to do some work at home should the need arise.

does anyone have any suggestions for a reasonably priced solution?
the overall speed isnt that important; it will only need to be enough to
pull the bandwidth over to the network in the apartment, 1mbps will do fine
or even less, considering i hope to achieve ~768k speeds

razta · 09-29-2003

Get an orinoco AP, and run cable for an external antenna. You dont need a big antenna, just one with better LOS.

renode · 09-30-2003

orinoco doesnt make wireless routers do they?
itll have to be a router since ill patch in to the cisco, correct?

i dont know what i can do as far as an antenna. they
probably wont let me put anything up. however, theres a huge
tenna on the roof of the building... its the broadcast tenna
for their service! perhaps if there could be a way i might
use it at the same time? how i could do that, i dont know...

if a cantenna would do the trick, i could probably whip something
up with that. running the cables would be a pain because of
the layout, however...

Thorn · 09-30-2003

A "broadcast tenna" (and that's ANTENNA) will not work, for a number of different reasons.

As you do not have LOS, this may never work. It depends on a number of different factors, such as the construction types of the two buildings. You may be able to improve the odds in your favor by using a directional antenna at each end of the link, and pointing them at each other. That may give you enough gain to obtain a link through the walls. Again, without LOS, it may never work. The only way to be sure is to make is to conduct a site survey.

As to whether it needs to be a router, that depends on the network configuration. You probably will, but you would probaly be in a better position to answer that than we would.

BTW, please use the shift key. All lower case is EXTREMELY difficult to read.

JimEther · 09-30-2003

Hey There,

Either find a friend with wireless who will let you borrow their equipment or bite the bullet and go buys some stuff... AP with an antenna that comes off and a NIC that has an external antenna connector. I don't know if you are going to use a laptop or desktop though...

Anyway, Put the AP as close as you can to your building accross the street. You could try to point the AP out a window, if there is one, and bounce the signal in your new apartment direction. Go accross the street into the apartment building and see what you can get with the off-the-shelf equipment.

As far as Antenna's, you should definately be able to build a 'PrimeStar Antenna' and get the signal through a dozen walls and about 80ft of air (sqrt(75^2 + 20^2)) is the distance from the building over 75ft and up 20ft.

I have gotten some killer distances with just a cantenna and a reflector.

This is getting long, but there is one more thing to say. I used to work in Detroit a few years back, and I actually ran Cat5e from where I worked down the block to an apartment I had. I just grabbed a ladder and ran it about 5 feet under the telephone line on the poles. You may wanna attatch some fencing wire to the Cat5e though so that it doesn't stretch or break. It worked for 3 years for me before I moved... ofcourse I left the cable up there.

nashr · 09-30-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by renode
i work in a business that physically hosts the hardware for a local satellite ISP

<snip>

my question is, could an off the shelf wireless system be adequate to leech off this connection?

Is it just me, or does anyone else have a problem with what appears to be theft of services?????

Thorn · 09-30-2003

I read it as he has permission from the ISP and equipment provider. If he doesn't, then the thread goes off to the bit bucket...

JimEther · 09-30-2003

Hey There,

Actually, some of the language notes that the company will be aware of what he is doing, they just won't let him mount an antenna.

Quote:

legality is not an issue here as i am the tech for the business which hosts the equipment,
and i alone deal with their equipment should it go down considering they never want to send
anyone out to fix anything, and ive been given permission from my supervisor providing i use
the bandwidth to do some work at home should the need arise.

HITMONEY · 09-30-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by JimEther

This is getting long, but there is one more thing to say. I used to work in Detroit a few years back, and I actually ran Cat5e from where I worked down the block to an apartment I had. I just grabbed a ladder and ran it about 5 feet under the telephone line on the poles. You may wanna attatch some fencing wire to the Cat5e though so that it doesn't stretch or break. It worked for 3 years for me before I moved... ofcourse I left the cable up there.

I cant wait to watch the news tomorrow.....

Headline....
In a rash of unexplained deaths, authorities are looking into what appears to be a mass suicide performed by some kind of weird cult. It is the creative manner that these cult members took their life which has authorites baffled around the globe..... Members of the cult stood on metal ladders then wrapped fencing wire around high voltage cables causing instant high voltage shock and the bodies burst into flame.

"It looked like a row of human sized rotisserie chickens as far as the eye could see!" said one witness.

An unexpected side affect of this, what is now being called, MMS or "Mass Moron Suicide" was that the IQ in the human gene pool rose 10 points... said one scientist.

A manhunt is also under way for the cult's leader who is believed not to have taken place in the MMS, a Mr. Jim Ether. Mr. Ether faces multiple charges but by the same token has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his actions of ridding the world of morons.

Full Story at 11

nashr · 09-30-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by JimEther
Hey There,

Actually, some of the language notes that the company will be aware of what he is doing, they just won't let him mount an antenna.

Ah yes, I re-read the posts. Sorry, my bad.

JimEther · 09-30-2003

Hey There,

Actually, the poles I climbed were not high-voltage (only phone- the bulding was about 700ft from a local phone switch and the poles didn't care electricity other than phone cables), the ladder wasn't metal- not that it would matter when touching wooden poles, the fence wire only gets ziptied to the Cat5e cable, not the phone wires, and as I mentioned, it was around 5 feet lower than the phone cables were. More than safe.

I am a certified Power Specialist, I have had my ham licenses for over 10 years, and blah blah blah, what I did was safe so long as the phone cables never:

break, desheild themselves, deshield my cat5e completely, solder themselves together, and then initiate a phone call to the numbers while I stick the other end of the cat5e in my mouth unshielded and before the ethernet surge protection.... and even then, it would just be a mild jot to the system of around 13volts.

besides, it was for a good cause. At work we had 8MB/s connection to the internet. After my little LAN/WAN was created, so did I... @home!

HITMONEY · 09-30-2003

Hey There!

Anyway its a joke... you know hehe haha

Plus you never know what some of these n00b forum clowns might try... I doubt they are HAM, Certified Power Specialists... blah blah blah

/me reaches over and loosens JimEthers tie... it might be a little tight there buddy.

G8tK33per · 09-30-2003

Hey There!!!

JimEther · 09-30-2003

Hey There,

Yeah, I know (er thought). I just didn't want ppl out there to think it was dangerous and I was a moron. Ofcourse, with some of the things I have seen asked on here, I really don't know why I care what the noobs think of me. Anyway, it worked great, probably still there right now. I tried taking pictures of it for someone before but the Cat5e was a light gray color, and don't show up against the smog-filled blue sky.

Anyway... I have loosened my tie and now I remember where I am.

HITMONEY · 09-30-2003

Hey There,

Thanks for ruining my joke!

Anyway, I wasn't portraying you as the moron... just people who might go out there and try it... how do they know the difference between phone and power cable...

Thats why I gave you the Nobel Peace Prize....

09-29-2003	#1 (permalink)
renode Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: C-town, Indiana Posts: 3	wifi setup recommendations, help appreciated i work in a business that physically hosts the hardware for a local satellite ISP, and as a bonus my workplace gets free t1 access. recently an apartment became available for rent across the street from my workplace, which is on the 3rd floor, and approximately 75 ft. from the room which contains the equipment. this distance is purely horizontal; not counting the distance up 2 levels to the apartment. Id say a distance total of maybe 120 ft at most.... the room that hosts the equipment is a small room nearly in the center of the building on the ground floor, and there are approx. 4 walls that block line-of-sight to the window of the aforementioned apartment. my question is, could an off the shelf wireless system be adequate to leech off this connection? i had hopes that in using a good wireless router + booster in the equipment room and another access point in the closest window of the apt. that perhaps i could get a signal strong enough to go with that and ditch paying for the phone + dsl considering my cell does a good enough job alone. legality is not an issue here as i am the tech for the business which hosts the equipment, and i alone deal with their equipment should it go down considering they never want to send anyone out to fix anything, and ive been given permission from my supervisor providing i use the bandwidth to do some work at home should the need arise. does anyone have any suggestions for a reasonably priced solution? the overall speed isnt that important; it will only need to be enough to pull the bandwidth over to the network in the apartment, 1mbps will do fine or even less, considering i hope to achieve ~768k speeds Last edited by renode : 09-29-2003 at 10:01 PM.

09-29-2003	#2 (permalink)
razta PTP to PTMP Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tucson Posts: 150	Get an orinoco AP, and run cable for an external antenna. You dont need a big antenna, just one with better LOS. __________________ <><><><><><><><><><><> Razta

09-30-2003	#4 (permalink)
Thorn Did you do the math? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Villa Straylight Posts: 10,360	A "broadcast tenna" (and that's ANTENNA) will not work, for a number of different reasons. As you do not have LOS, this may never work. It depends on a number of different factors, such as the construction types of the two buildings. You may be able to improve the odds in your favor by using a directional antenna at each end of the link, and pointing them at each other. That may give you enough gain to obtain a link through the walls. Again, without LOS, it may never work. The only way to be sure is to make is to conduct a site survey. As to whether it needs to be a router, that depends on the network configuration. You probably will, but you would probaly be in a better position to answer that than we would. BTW, please use the shift key. All lower case is EXTREMELY difficult to read. __________________ Thorn "Read Altas Shrugged. Compare it to today. Repeat as necessary"

09-30-2003	#5 (permalink)
JimEther Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South East Michigan Posts: 65	Do a test. Hey There, Either find a friend with wireless who will let you borrow their equipment or bite the bullet and go buys some stuff... AP with an antenna that comes off and a NIC that has an external antenna connector. I don't know if you are going to use a laptop or desktop though... Anyway, Put the AP as close as you can to your building accross the street. You could try to point the AP out a window, if there is one, and bounce the signal in your new apartment direction. Go accross the street into the apartment building and see what you can get with the off-the-shelf equipment. As far as Antenna's, you should definately be able to build a 'PrimeStar Antenna' and get the signal through a dozen walls and about 80ft of air (sqrt(75^2 + 20^2)) is the distance from the building over 75ft and up 20ft. I have gotten some killer distances with just a cantenna and a reflector. This is getting long, but there is one more thing to say. I used to work in Detroit a few years back, and I actually ran Cat5e from where I worked down the block to an apartment I had. I just grabbed a ladder and ran it about 5 feet under the telephone line on the poles. You may wanna attatch some fencing wire to the Cat5e though so that it doesn't stretch or break. It worked for 3 years for me before I moved... ofcourse I left the cable up there. Last edited by JimEther : 09-30-2003 at 09:00 AM.

09-30-2003	#7 (permalink)
Thorn Did you do the math? Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Villa Straylight Posts: 10,360	I read it as he has permission from the ISP and equipment provider. If he doesn't, then the thread goes off to the bit bucket... __________________ Thorn "Read Altas Shrugged. Compare it to today. Repeat as necessary"

09-30-2003	#3 (permalink)
renode Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: C-town, Indiana Posts: 3	orinoco doesnt make wireless routers do they? itll have to be a router since ill patch in to the cisco, correct? i dont know what i can do as far as an antenna. they probably wont let me put anything up. however, theres a huge tenna on the roof of the building... its the broadcast tenna for their service! perhaps if there could be a way i might use it at the same time? how i could do that, i dont know... if a cantenna would do the trick, i could probably whip something up with that. running the cables would be a pain because of the layout, however...

09-30-2003	#11 (permalink)
JimEther Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South East Michigan Posts: 65	Actually Hey There, Actually, the poles I climbed were not high-voltage (only phone- the bulding was about 700ft from a local phone switch and the poles didn't care electricity other than phone cables), the ladder wasn't metal- not that it would matter when touching wooden poles, the fence wire only gets ziptied to the Cat5e cable, not the phone wires, and as I mentioned, it was around 5 feet lower than the phone cables were. More than safe. I am a certified Power Specialist, I have had my ham licenses for over 10 years, and blah blah blah, what I did was safe so long as the phone cables never: break, desheild themselves, deshield my cat5e completely, solder themselves together, and then initiate a phone call to the numbers while I stick the other end of the cat5e in my mouth unshielded and before the ethernet surge protection.... and even then, it would just be a mild jot to the system of around 13volts. besides, it was for a good cause. At work we had 8MB/s connection to the internet. After my little LAN/WAN was created, so did I... @home!

09-30-2003	#12 (permalink)
HITMONEY Who Wants Butter??? Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Pete Beach, FL. Posts: 529	Hey There! Anyway its a joke... you know hehe haha Plus you never know what some of these n00b forum clowns might try... I doubt they are HAM, Certified Power Specialists... blah blah blah /me reaches over and loosens JimEthers tie... it might be a little tight there buddy.

09-30-2003	#13 (permalink)
G8tK33per Asshole Emeritus Join Date: May 2003 Location: Goomba's Booty Boardwalk Posts: 6,128	Hey There!!! __________________ "My mind is aglow with whirling, transient nodes of thought careening through a cosmic vapor of invention." Sons of Confederate Veterans

09-30-2003	#14 (permalink)
JimEther Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South East Michigan Posts: 65	The MMS had me falling over Hey There, Yeah, I know (er thought). I just didn't want ppl out there to think it was dangerous and I was a moron. Ofcourse, with some of the things I have seen asked on here, I really don't know why I care what the noobs think of me. Anyway, it worked great, probably still there right now. I tried taking pictures of it for someone before but the Cat5e was a light gray color, and don't show up against the smog-filled blue sky. Anyway... I have loosened my tie and now I remember where I am.

09-30-2003	#15 (permalink)
HITMONEY Who Wants Butter??? Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Pete Beach, FL. Posts: 529	Hey There, Thanks for ruining my joke! Anyway, I wasn't portraying you as the moron... just people who might go out there and try it... how do they know the difference between phone and power cable... Thats why I gave you the Nobel Peace Prize....

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