Questions

Questions about the operation or expectations of the NetStumbler software

Postby Snigel » Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:03 pm

What is the benfits of running ndis vs prism (or what the setting is called depending on card)

What utilities are there for bruteforcing WEP, are there any for windows?

Is there any way to remove the bars that you don't need?
I.E. Longitude/Latitude when you don't have a gps or name when it never shows anything or noise when it always reads 100 in ndis mode.


I know that you are supposed to write down the answers to the questions yourself but I thought this was real FAQ questions so I give it a shot.
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Postby Thorn » Sun Jul 20, 2003 7:17 am

Originally posted by Snigel
...
I know that you are supposed to write down the answers to the questions yourself but I thought this was real FAQ questions so I give it a shot.


NOTE: Moved from the FAQ Thread.

You know what the idea for the FAQ thread is, yet you ignore it. All this does is to make more work for the mods. This is NOT a good way to make friends and influence people. :mad:

In the future, I'd suggest that if you have questions like this that you do the folllowing:

Post the question(s), and when you have answers add both to the FAQ.

Additionally, some of these questions have been answered before, and some are even in the FAQ Thread. You might actually want to SEARCH and READ before posting.
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Postby btrimble » Sun Jul 20, 2003 6:14 pm

is it just me or are the views on this topic a little exaggerated?
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Postby Thorn » Mon Jul 21, 2003 4:07 am

Yes, because it was split off the FAQ thread. A split thread inherits the view count of the original thread.
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Snigel...

Postby Monitr7 » Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:46 am

What utilities are there for bruteforcing WEP, are there any for windows?


Planning on doing some wireless haX0r -ing on someone's AP, d00d? Not only that, but did you search?

Not bashing; merely asking.
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Postby Snigel » Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:40 am

I'm sorry for posting it wrong, I was new to the board and misunderstood.

Could someone please try to answer my questions?

Monitr7 I've searched for apps but haven't found any, that's why I'm asking. I've also tried to get airsnort running for windows. can start it up but it seems like it's not working.
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Postby Madhadder » Sat Jul 26, 2003 9:27 am

Then try, Airsnort of Linux,Kismet Or Weillenriter...
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Postby EvilCable » Sat Jul 26, 2003 9:31 am

Did you even *try* searching google? Most of your questions are answered in newsgroups, forums, websites, etc.

There is no specific windows wep hacking program. If you wanna hack wep, you'll really need to have some insight on the protocal and encryption. Most people who have that kind of insight, usually won't use it to hack other peoples wireless network.

From the way it seems, you are in the WRONG forum for this kind of stuff.
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Postby Snigel » Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 am

Originally posted by EvilCable
Did you even *try* searching google? Most of your questions are answered in newsgroups, forums, websites, etc.

There is no specific windows wep hacking program. If you wanna hack wep, you'll really need to have some insight on the protocal and encryption. Most people who have that kind of insight, usually won't use it to hack other peoples wireless network.

From the way it seems, you are in the WRONG forum for this kind of stuff.


I said that I searched. I think it's a good question since I didn't find anything except for airsnort compiled for win32.

I don't get it, why can't guys here be nice, I said that I searched don't ask me the same question again, why don't you just help me instead?

For my netstumbler questions about how to remove unused bars I don't really get it why I even should google for it, this is the netstumbler forum if someone knows, it should be here.

For ndis/prism I've searched this board some, I couldn't really find it. I tried.

Why can't someone just give me a link or write down your own knowledge if you actually know the answers? I tried, I didn't find what I was looking for. So everybody that knows just flame me..

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the sake of googling and looking through the FAQ I did it again, and guess what, I searched through the FAQ for prism and couldn't find anything about what I was looking for, just which cards are supported or not.

I googled some for it but I could just find drivers and pages about people having problems with netstumbler etc, not the actual benefits of running it.

I couldn't find how to remove the bars that are unused in the FAQ either.

Thorn, you was wrong, there was nothing in the faq that I could find even when I looked through it my second time. The reason why I wrote it the first time was that I had looked through the whole thread for an answer but couldn't find any.

As for the wep apps, I've searched and only seen apps for linux, I asked because I couldn't find. What do you guys do when you don't find it? I make a thread on a forum.
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Postby EvilCable » Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:41 am

Aparantly you didn't search good enuff.

For WEP Hacking, read my previous statement, you might be able to get the key if you know encryption and have good knowledge of the 802.11b protocol. Ethereal would be a good place to start for traffic sniffing. But its only the start.

As for PRISM & NDIS cards, this has been answered many many times before. PRISM CARDS DON'T WORK WITH NETSTUMBLER. NDIS is just a bridge between the OS and card. It will pass information from a program and give the driver the info it needs. Its very buggy and MAY NOT WORK WITH WINDOWS. NDIS 5.1 will *only* work with Windows XP/2000. I just answered this question on these forums before. If you searched enuff you would have found this answer. There is no holy grail when it comes to getting NS to work directly with the PRISM chipset. None, nodda.

Also, while searching you would have noticed that there is NO WAY to remove unused bars. You can move them around but the settings won't stay. I beleive this is also in the readme, but don't quote me on this.

Packet sniffing / wireless sniffing isn't the easiest thing to do with windows. thats why most of the utils are in linux.

I would also advise, hacking APs with morally and most likely illegal in your area. This is not the place to ask about hacking APs, even indirectly. Thats why I said this is the wrong forum for that kind of stuff.

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Postby Snigel » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:16 pm

What I got from your reply is that ndis is a bridge between the app and the cards drivers. It can be buggy, but it doesn't need to be.

I got my orinoco silver and dwl-650 to work with the other mode than Ndis, though it was much slower and had harder to find accesspoints than ndis 5.1 .

Does that mean that it didn't work the way it should because it was unsupported? Or does it mean that it did work even though it isn't supported?


Isn't ethereal for linux? In that case thats not what I'm interested in, as I said.

I couldn't find anything about removing the bars in the FAQ, therefore I asked.
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Postby sparafina » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:42 pm

Originally posted by Snigel
There it is again, I'm not interested in what is supported and what's not, I'm asking for what the benefits from running one or another. If both works, which should I stick to and why?
Cause I have seen many times in the FAQ what is supported, the problem is apperntly not that I can't search but that you can't read my question properly. I didn't ask what works with NS but what the differences are between them.

If you really wanna talk about what's supported and not then;
I got prism working on the card I had before and it behaved in another way than ndis, what do you mean with that ns don't support it, wasn't it running prism even if I chose it and it found ap:s? Both modes work on my orinoco silver too, Does the one that isn't ndis not work or what are you saying? I don't really get it here.

Get my point? I'm not interested in what is supported cause both modes work, I wan't to know the differences.

Isn't ethereal for linux? In that case thats not what I'm interested in, as I said.

I couldn't find anything about removing the bars in the FAQ, therefore I ask.


The reason people are irritated is because you obviously did not spend any time reading the threads on the board. If you had, you would know that most people prefer the Orinoco because:

1. it has an external antenna adapter
2. NS was written for the hermes chipset, and NDIS drivers may or may not work reliably
3. Orinocos have a higher power output than most of the Prism cards

People are telling you to google because it is obvious you are not doing it. For example, here's the answer to question about ethereal on windows.

No one wants to help you because they don't want to spend time spoon feeding somebody that is too LAZY to use google or spend time reading the board.
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Postby Snigel » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:54 pm

I have googled, I have read the board, but I just search for thread topics, I haven't been on the board for so long, so I don't know which thread that says something completely different than the topic as you veterans here do. In that case search can't help me.
I have searched the board for ndis and prism here only tells me about what is supported and not and that noise levels doesn't work. Not the real differences when you are running them. If there are any reason to choose one of them if both works.
Googling for ndis and prism isn't really easy either, way too much results and mostly not interesting results at all.

I have googled for wep-apps, but without knowing any it's pretty hard. I looked here on the board to find some of them. The only one I figured out to be working for win was airsnort, which I googled for, got a compiled version for win and got it to start, but I don't think it's working correctly at all.
I've asked for others for win, cause what I've seen on the board here and on google there isn't any others, but maybe someone knew something.

You don't need to tell me why I need to buy a card from Orinoco.
You say that I'm lazy even though I search, but you can't even read my reply correctly and see that I wrote that I have a Orinoco Silver.

As for etheral, I didn't search, you are correct. Thats because:
1. EvilCable made a reply here saying that there were no wep-cracking apps for win. He also posted that app.
2. I had seen it on a friends computer when he ran linux.

So I really didn't think there was a win32 port of it. Is that a strange way of thinking? I don't think it is.

It's not easy being new on the board without big knowledge on what I should search after, and even when I try too people here aren't really easy on me.

About the bars: I read the readme again, there is nothing in the readme about how to move or delete the bars as I could see.
(I know I can move them, that's what I'm doing right now.)

Edit: What I meant was running prism/hermes vs ndis5.1
I forgot to write it, because of the change from my DWL-650 to my orinoco silver because of the DWL said "prism" but the orinoco just said "orinoco". My bad. But then what is the benefits of running with hermes instead of ndis?

Nobody have answered what the benefits are yet. Just that it can be buggy with ndis and that prism is not supported.
But just think that both my dwl 650 and my ORINOCO SILVER work with the other mode than ndis. What are the differences?

I've seen that ndis is faster and have troubles with noiselevels.¨
That what I've seen when I searched the board, but that doesn't really answer my question, right?
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Postby sparafina » Sat Jul 26, 2003 1:48 pm

Originally posted by Snigel I have googled for wep-apps, but without knowing any it's pretty hard. I looked here on the board to find some of them.


You know enough to ask about wep cracking, there are so many how-to's and professional papers on the subject that is hard to believe that you can not find any apps.

The only one I figured out to be working for win was airsnort, which I googled for, got a compiled version for win and got it to start, but I don't think it's working correctly at all.


If you would ask these types of questions, i.e. how do I get airsnort running correctly, more people would respond to that, instead of the general questions you are asking.


You don't need to tell me why I need to buy a card from Orinoco.
You say that I'm lazy even though I search, but you can't even read my reply correctly and see that I wrote that I have a Orinoco Silver.


It is irrelevant whether I know if you do or don't have an orinoco. The question on which card to purchase is asked almost every week. The responses are consistently to go with a hermes chipset because of the reasons I outlined previously.

If you have both cards, perform your own comparison and contribute to the board.


As for etheral, I didn't search, you are correct. Thats because:
1. There was a reply here saying that there were no wep-cracking apps for win. Same person posted that app.
2. I had seen it on a friends computer when he ran linux.

So I really didn't think there was a win32 port of it. Is that a strange way of thinking? I don't think it is.


I think that it is a LAZY way of thinking. Given the number of people that use windows, somebody will try to port linux apps to win32. Furthermore, why not just install linux or get a distribution that works on a bootable CD such as Knoppix. Try searching for Knoppix-STD, you will find the tools you are looking for.


It's not easy being new on the board without big knowledge on what I should search after, and even when I try too people here aren't really easy on me.


If you ask a good question, that demonstrates you have spent some time researching , people will respond positively.

If you ask generic questions in the context of netstumbler, such as ndis vs prism, people are going to flame you because the answer is that the current version of netstumbler may be able to work using the NDIS drivers and does not work at all with Prism.
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Postby Snigel » Sat Jul 26, 2003 1:58 pm

I had heard of wepcracking for linux, yes. That doesn't mean at all that I know any winapps, which I didn't find either.
I didn't ask how to run airsnort because I was after an app that wasn't ported for win but made to work on win.
But as people here says there are no apps made for win and wep-cracking so why do you think it's strange that I didn't find anything?

I think it's very relevant that you read what I'm writing and not reading what you're thinking I'm going to write.

For etheral it's not lazy thinking, why would he change his mind so sudden about apps for win32 that can wep-crack? But I was wrong, I will look on it.

Oh here I go again, I'm interested in the differences between hermes/prism/ndis 5.1 settings if it would work. Not if it's supported or not. Just pretend it all worked, just forget about current version of netstumbler and random users that can't get it running. What are the differences between them, is something to prefer?

I have searched here and tried with google. Nobody can answer the question either so probably nobody knows because nobody seems to be able to answer.
The things I get from my search of the board and my own tries is:

ndis:
faster
noise not working
buggy

hermes
my orinoco silver works, but it's much slower than ndis and doesn't find as much either.

prism
unsupported, though my prism card works like my hermes do?

I'll guess I just have to forget about getting any info from users here why I should run hermes/ndis/prism.

I'll create a thread about airsnort then.
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