Got pulled over

Post info/pics about your rigs that you use for stumbling!

Got pulled over

Postby Ai42 » Sun Jan 12, 2003 1:08 am

Ok so me and my buddies go out on a wardrive. With our recently made pringles antennas.

So after wardriving for a couple hours, we want to see how far we can send a signal. So we goto a lake and sit on either sides (about .8 miles across) trying to see if we can send messages and such. We drop of one of our friends on one side of the lake. Then me and one of my buddies drives to the other side of the lake and as we are about to whip out the antenna to connet to our buddy a cop pulls up and just watches us. So sit there looking at him for a bit, then call our friend on the other side of the lake telling him we're gonna pick him up. So as we drive off to pick him up the cop pulls us over.

So he asks for my license, then my friends. Checks for warrants and my plates and such. Then asks me to step out and tell him what we were doing. Of course he pauses so, I lift my arms because he looks like he is going to pat me down or something. He first asks me how old I am (which is pretty stupid seeing that he had my license). Then I tell him we are communicating to our friend across the lake using our laptops and radio freqency antennas. He dosen't seam to grasp the concept of sending messages through radio waves so I explain 802.11b for about 20 mins (in about as simple terms as possible, using his dispatch radio as an example). Then he asks my friend basically the same stuff he asked me. Then he searches the car for anything that he can see. Which of course is a huge mess of cables, power inverters, serveral GPS units, pigtails, flashlights, bunch of tools and drills (to make the pringles antennas), pringles cans and a some paper bags from Wendy's. So after being questioned for about 40 mins he just lets us go, saying that he pulled us over because he thought we were vandals or something and gonna break windows some BS about that. Which is kinda stupid because we were in a pretty blue collared neighboorhood it wasn't by any means the ghetto or high class.

So we go pick up our now freezing friend, and he tells us that he saw the cop come up on us and apparently the cop was racing down the street toward us (the road curves a lot so I obviously couldn't see).

Just thought I would share.
Ai42
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 3:18 am
Location: Dallas

Postby TheSovereign » Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:15 am

i got pulled over once too
i had the libretto on the dash and the cop was beside me
he looked at me during a red light
then when it turned green i took off and he stayed behind a bit
and about 2 minutes later he pulled me over

he stepped up to me and told me it was illegal to have a display monitor visable to the driver (he happens to be correct i looked it up) and he asked "what is that? its not a television"
i told him its a mini labtop he said whats it fer. i explained to him i was looking for wireless networks.
he says "oh i heard of that can u check my stocks?" i told him their was nothing in range
kind of an odd story maybe he didnt understand what he asked was against the law
SO SAYS TheSovereign
User avatar
TheSovereign
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:35 am
Location: chicago

Postby c0nv3r9 » Sun Jan 12, 2003 7:56 am

I have driven behind, in front of, and one the side of cops in full gear, and not one has stopped me. I've gotten some weird looks, but that is the extent. The closest scare I got was wardriving through Augusta, ME at about 4am on my way back from my Great Northern Maine expedition of WWWD2. A cop heading in the opposite direction flashed his blues as he was passing.

I assumed it was for another car in the opposite lane, plus having driven at that point for 15 1/2 hours straight, was not thinking most clearly. The next thing I noticed, was that he had turned around behind me, and was following me. I waited and waited for him to flick his blues again. I drove _exactly_ the speed limit (not utilizing the +5 range at all)... and after tailing me for about three miles, he turned off. Then again, I did have to drive right by our capital to get to where I was going...
He shall recount his worthies: they shall stumble in their walk; they shall make haste to the wall thereof, and the defence shall be prepared.
-- Nahum 2:5, The Holy Bible, KJV
c0nv3r9
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2002 7:44 am
Location: not behind you, or am I?

Re: Got pulled over

Postby MRK » Sun Jan 12, 2003 10:57 am

Originally posted by Ai42
Ok so me and my buddies go out on a wardrive. With our recently made pringles antennas.

So after wardriving for a couple hours, we want to see how far we can send a signal. So we goto a lake and sit on either sides (about .8 miles across) trying to see if we can send messages and such. We drop of one of our friends on one side of the lake. Then me and one of my buddies drives to the other side of the lake and as we are about to whip out the antenna to connet to our buddy a cop pulls up and just watches us. So sit there looking at him for a bit, then call our friend on the other side of the lake telling him we're gonna pick him up. So as we drive off to pick him up the cop pulls us over.

So he asks for my license, then my friends. Checks for warrants and my plates and such. Then asks me to step out and tell him what we were doing. Of course he pauses so, I lift my arms because he looks like he is going to pat me down or something. He first asks me how old I am (which is pretty stupid seeing that he had my license). Then I tell him we are communicating to our friend across the lake using our laptops and radio freqency antennas. He dosen't seam to grasp the concept of sending messages through radio waves so I explain 802.11b for about 20 mins (in about as simple terms as possible, using his dispatch radio as an example). Then he asks my friend basically the same stuff he asked me. Then he searches the car for anything that he can see. Which of course is a huge mess of cables, power inverters, serveral GPS units, pigtails, flashlights, bunch of tools and drills (to make the pringles antennas), pringles cans and a some paper bags from Wendy's. So after being questioned for about 40 mins he just lets us go, saying that he pulled us over because he thought we were vandals or something and gonna break windows some BS about that. Which is kinda stupid because we were in a pretty blue collared neighboorhood it wasn't by any means the ghetto or high class.

So we go pick up our now freezing friend, and he tells us that he saw the cop come up on us and apparently the cop was racing down the street toward us (the road curves a lot so I obviously couldn't see).

Just thought I would share.


That is very illegal. If a cop does not have probable cause then he cannot stop you. He can’t stop you just because he thinks your going to do something. And even if he did have probable cause, he still can’t search you or your car. So basically, if he did find anything that incriminates you, it wouldn’t have been allowed in court.

That is what disgusts me about cops. Some of them have no regard for the law. They just think that they can do what ever the hell they want. And no one will care. They think that they don’t have to follow the laws. Well, they do. I have adopted a new policy. When I see a cop do something illegal, I honk and flash my lights at them. lol. Yes, some of them get mad, but they never pull me over. The closest thing I have come to getting pulled over for this was one night at about 2am. lol. He decided he didn’t need to stop at a stop sign, and i laid on my horn and flashed my lights like there was no tomorrow. He got pissed off and did a u turn and followed me for about 2 miles. When he finally passed me i just waved and smiled. Anyway, I just though you should know that what he did was illegal. Anyway.

Btw, in my state we have a gps law which allows the driver to utilize an on screen navigation system. You are allowed to view, but not to use it. This means that you can only *LOOK* at the screen. If you lean over and start typing or something, then you are in violation of the law. But if you are just looking at it, then you are ok. They made this because many of the new high end cars have built in lcd's with gps navigation in them. So they had to create something that allowed the drivers to use them.

-Mr.K
MRK
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 12:31 pm

Postby Thorn » Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:12 pm

Mr. K,

Nothing illegal that I see in this. There is a big legal difference between "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause." To stop and investigate a person, a police officer does not need probable cause, he only needs a suspicion which he can "reasonably articulate to the court." He does not have to explain the reason to the detainee, although in my experience most police officers do so if the suspicion turns out to be wrong or unfounded. A "pat down" or "frisk" search for weapons almost always allowed. Only five states require search warrants to search the enclosed areas of a vehicle without the owner's consent. None restrict the police from looking in the windows to see what is in plain sight.

As to your examples with when you think the cops are doing something illegal, you should know that most states have a clause in the traffic laws which allow police to ignore any and all traffic and parking laws while on duty. You on the other hand, may be doing something wrong. For example in this state it is illegal to sound your car's horn unnecessarily.
Thorn
Stop the TSA now! Boycott the airlines.
Thorn
 
Posts: 10340
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 3:00 am
Location: Villa Straylight

Postby javageek » Sun Jan 12, 2003 2:41 pm

I would like to see that clause. I was a volunteer firefighter for awhile and we had to stop at all lights and stop signs even if we were on our way to a fire. Yes, the public had to yield the right of way, but we still had to obey traffic laws. I highly doubt a police officer can ignore any and all traffic rules. If that were true, he could go through a school zone doing 80 miles an hour.
javageek
Mini Stumbler
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:44 pm

Postby Thorn » Sun Jan 12, 2003 5:51 pm

javageek,
In the Vermont Statutes Annoted the clause is actually in several sections over a rather large chapter of the motor vehicles laws, so I'm not going to quote it all. You can look it up on Lexis if you like. However, this is part of it: Title 23 V.S.A. § 1011, Paragraph (b) reads:

"On duty enforcement officers are exempt from the speed limits established in accordance with sections 1003 and 1007 of this title, and fixed by section 1081 of this title. (Added 1971, No. 258 (Adj. Sess.), § 3, eff. March 1, 1973.)"

§ 1003, §1081 and § 1007 are two State and a Municipal speed limit sections. Other sections covers stop signs and traffic lights, and specifies volunteer firefighters do not have stop if they are responding to a fire.
Thorn
Stop the TSA now! Boycott the airlines.
Thorn
 
Posts: 10340
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 3:00 am
Location: Villa Straylight

Postby Mirlyn » Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:09 pm

I just posted my story about being pulled over a few days ago here .

Originally posted by javageek
If that were true, he could go through a school zone doing 80 miles an hour.


It's true. I've seen it. Wouldn't advise trying it for yourself though. ;) Most officers (here, at least) silently respond to calls. This allows them to show up discretely to the scene of whatever, but it also allows them to appear as if they are speeding around for no reason. If you are in doubt and have an abundance of free time, call the police and complain about it. Not 911, but the police directly. They'll be happy to explain the law to you.

TheSovereign: Very interesting on the monitor bit. Where do you live? I may stop by our substation and inquire over the law regarding that here. Wonder if they'd consider a laptop in the backseat facing the driver as being visible, or if it has to be within line of sight of driving.
Mirlyn
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 7:03 am
Location: Wichita, Kansas

Postby Ai42 » Sun Jan 12, 2003 7:17 pm

Mr.K
I did not have a laptop in my viewable area. My friend in the backseat was the only one in the car when I got pulled over.

Yes a cop has to have probbable cause, to pull you over and he could make a decent agrument that he suspected us of being vandals. However there was overwhelming evidence in the car that what we were doing was not in fact illegal and he couldn't hold us for anything so the had to let us go. I mean it was about 1AM so cops can make up all kinds of shit just because it is late.

As far as a search through the car he cannot do that without a good reason, however he can look at anything that is within view. There was no drugs or alcohol or anything like that she he couldn't take us in for that either. However, if a cop asks you to search your car you might as well let them. Because they can make up some bs about resonable suspicion and impound your car which will then be searched when the car is impounded to verify contents of the car.

I wasn't really worried as he couldn't take us in for anything not even trespassing as one of our friends lived within about a block and a half of the area (it was a park btw).
Ai42
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 3:18 am
Location: Dallas

Postby MRK » Sun Jan 12, 2003 7:58 pm

I understand that cops have the right to view what is visable to them, but i was talking about searching places like the trunk or seats, etc... As far as the search warrent issue, most states require probbable cause to search your car. And simply sitting at a lake is by far not probable cause.

I can understand as far as the speed limits go. They do have to be able to keep up with the cars that speed. But as far as the other laws like stoping at stop signs or signaling, they do have to. Now, when they are responding to a call or they have thier lights on, then no, they dont, but when they are driving like a normal person, they do.

-Mr.K
MRK
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 12:31 pm

Postby Mirlyn » Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:25 pm

Originally posted by MRK
And simply sitting at a lake is by far not probable cause.


Don't know about your or Ai42's area, but here's a bit of experience. One night some friends and I went and got some take-out chineese. We then drove to a park and sat in the car eating the food around 10:15pm. Two officers pulled up behind us and checked the car and our IDs and questioned us. Although we were sitting in our car minding our own business in a public park, they had reasonable cause to question us and do a visible search of the car. Unbeknownst to us, all public parks in the city close at 10. He could have ticketed each of us for being in the park after hours, along with trespassing. However, they just warned us of the law and drove off as we left the area. Just being in the park was enough to warrant his actions.

Again, I don't know about your laws, but here they will ask for permission to physically search your vehicle (not just look in your windows with a flashlight). You may, of course, allow them or not. If you deny permission, they will often times leave you alone. However, if they have suspicion, they can hold you until a search warrant is issued. This takes about 15-20 minutes and can be done over the radio.

As far as the officers' traffic behavior goes, here they have to turn their emergency lights on when doing an illegal U-turn or going through an intersection. I think they still must yield to existing traffic though, so at a red light they have to come to a stop before going through. Not 100% sure on that, as its not something that bothers me a whole lot because I hardly ever see officers blow stop signs/lights for no obvious reason. :) I think the line between officers being legal and illegal is very vauge in that you often can't tell whether they are "driving like a normal person" or if they are on a call.
Mirlyn
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 7:03 am
Location: Wichita, Kansas

Getting pulled over

Postby jsicuran » Thu Jan 16, 2003 7:12 pm

Sorry to hear that you got pulled over. That sucks. In today’s environment it does not even matter what the cop does is illegal or not. With the "war on terror" and Iraq anything goes for national security. Especially if we are running around pointing Pringles cans or fab bought yagi antennas at each other or buildings. A cop will or may consider your "motions" as some kind of suspicious terrorist activity. I mean think about it for a moment a cop or anyone else who has no knowledge of what you are doing looks and sees someone pointing some white or blackened(from electrical tape) cylinder looking thing at a building. What else do you expect most people let alone the cops to think?

I mean I have done some war driving around Manhattan NYC and I even drove right in front of the UN pointing my hyperlink yagi out of the sunroof at the UN while driving on 1st ave. during lunch time. I nabbed some APs, unsecured to my surprise, but as I stopped at the next light I realized the stupidity of my actions. I could have been nailed unnecessarily big time for it looks like I have some rocket launcher pointing at a major building. I could have been detained for god knows what for god knows how long. For all I know my license plate and car with yagi sticking out of it was caught on film and the FBI or some other agency is looking at it. I am not saying become a stumbling coward but please fellas just be a little more careful and sensitive to the environment you are stumbling in. A harmless afternoon of stumbling could turn into a day of explaining what you are doing and if you belong to any “groups”… All it takes is one cop with an over zealous imagination or desires to be the next hero. Remember the governments TIPS proposal? Oh man if that went into effect I wonder how many stumblers would inadvertently be detained?

Be careful and be safe…
/JS
jsicuran
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 7:15 am
Location: NYC

Postby Mirlyn » Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:48 pm

It saddens me that we have to second-guess our actions in todays' world.

With that said, there is a difference between being innocent and being provocative. :)
Mirlyn
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 7:03 am
Location: Wichita, Kansas

Postby Titanium » Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:12 am

Originally posted by Thorn
As to your examples with when you think the cops are doing something illegal, you should know that most states have a clause in the traffic laws which allow police to ignore any and all traffic and parking laws while on duty. You on the other hand, may be doing something wrong. For example in this state it is illegal to sound your car's horn unnecessarily.


I don't think "most" states have this law. I've been to traffic school a couple of times in TN and have been told by the instructor of the class that officers on duty have to abide by all traffic laws just as civilians do unless they are on an emergency call (i.e. light bar/siren on). The instructor was a cop and actually said that anyone seeing another officer not abiding by the law in this regard to report them using the car number as ID. Anything that is reported to the police department on an officer goes in his/her permanent record.
Titanium
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 6:13 pm

Postby Thorn » Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:38 am

Titanium,
I'm not interested in getting into a flamewar over "most." If you want to prove the point as to whether a majority of states do or do not have such sections in the law, feel free to research the traffic laws in all 50 states. My feelings won't be hurt if it is not a majority.

Mr K was assuming in his posting that something done by the officer was illegal. All I'm saying is that depending on the laws in the state and the officer's actions, in may not have been actually illegal. The point of the matter is that unless you read the law and the specific section governing such actions, you have no idea. You said that an officer told you this in traffic school; I say, check the actual law before saying something is "illegal."
Thorn
Stop the TSA now! Boycott the airlines.
Thorn
 
Posts: 10340
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 3:00 am
Location: Villa Straylight

Next

Return to Stumbling Setups

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron